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  • fantoongal
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    I stand corrected.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lighthope
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by glendalais89 View Post
    These are the equivlent sections from the Foods contract that was just neotiated.

    Section 11 Subsection 1, Clause B
    "There shall be no split shifts and all time worked shall be continuous except for the meal period."
    So fantoongal was incorrect and that split shifts are indeed forbidden in the foods contract.

    Good for foods. Like I said, split shifts are baaaaaad.

    Section 11, Subsection 1, Clause F, Paragraphs 3 and 4
    "The Employer agrees that it will endeavor to schedule at least nine (9) hours between the end of any employee's shift and the beginning of the employee's shift the following day.
    Hope Master Services gets the 9 hours in the next contract. Actually, try for 12!

    I love that. "...unless waived by mutual consent". Yeah, right! Hahahahaha!

    Lighthope

    Pearls of Wisdom - The most dangerous threat to the environment is an environmentalist.

    --== TIGERS' QUEST - www.tigersquest.com
    --== THE DOCTOR WHO AUDIO DRAMAS - www.dwad.net
    --== A CHRISTMAS SPECIAL - http://christmas.dwad.net

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  • glendalais89
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    These are the equivlent sections from the Foods contract that was just negotiated.

    Section 11 Subsection 1, Clause B
    "There shall be no split shifts and all time worked shall be continuous except for the meal period."

    Section 11, Subsection 1, Clause C
    "For all Full-Time employees, the regular workday shall be eight (8) hours and for all employees the regular workweek shall begin with the third shift (Graveyard) on Saturday and extend through the second shift (Swing) of the following Saturday. However, the work week may be changed by the employer upon the giving of two (2) weeks notice to the Union."

    Section 11, Subsection 1, Clause F, Paragraphs 3 and 4
    "The Employer agrees that it will endeavor to schedule at least nine (9) hours between the end of any employee's shift and the beginning of the employee's shift the following day.

    In the event that there are less than nine (9) hours, between any two consecutive shifts, the affected employee shall receive time and one-half pay during the second shift until nine (9) hours have elapsed from the termination of the employee's first work shift, unless waived by mutual consent of the employee and the Employer .
    Last edited by glendalais89; 11-22-2007, 09:46 AM.

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  • Alyssa3467
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    I haven't read the Foods contract, but the Master Services Agreement covering Disneyland Park says in Section 34, Subsection A, Paragraph 1 "There shall be no split shifts and all time worked shall be continuous except for the meal periods." Paragraph 2 goes on to say "For all Full-Time employees the regular workday shall be eight (8) hours and for all employees the regular workweek shall be from 12:00 a.m. (midnight) on Sunday through 11:59 p.m. the following Saturday." (emphasis in original document)

    Section 17, Subsection C, Paragraph 1 says "The Employer agrees that it will endeavor to schedule at least eight (8) hours between the end of any employee's regularly scheduled eight (8) hour shift and at the beginning of the employee's next regularly scheduled shift." The second paragraph goes into what happens if that's not met.

    If I have some time on my hands, I might go over the HERE Local 50 contract to see what it says on the topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lighthope
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by fantoongal View Post
    Actually our contract doesn't say anything forbidding split shifts. It only says that we must have 9 hours between shifts. They are almost never scheduled though, but there were some during Grad Nights. People got shifts on Thursday morning, then Grad Night shifts Thursday night, then shifts again on Friday night or afternoon.
    Like I said, it's been a while, so I will take your word. Do you actually have a contract to read and confirm that?

    The only reason I ask is a loss of split shift protection is something relatively new I think. (I can be wrong here.)

    But Disney can actually get away with splitting shifts even if they are forbidden by some creative scheduling. It depends on when a shift starts and when the "day" starts. Most people think a new day begins at 12 midnight. However, some companies are very creative and start a new day at 3 AM or 10 PM. Why? It gets around overtime requirements.

    So that's why I wanted to make sure about the split shift language (or lack thereof) in the contract.

    Lighthope

    Pearls of Wisdom - "There is a fundamental difference between intelligence and wisdom. Learn the meaning of one and you'll gain the other." - Lord Steven

    --== TIGERS' QUEST - www.tigersquest.com
    --== THE DOCTOR WHO AUDIO DRAMAS - www.dwad.net
    --== A CHRISTMAS SPECIAL - http://christmas.dwad.net

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  • fantoongal
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by Lighthope View Post
    If I remember the Foods contract correctly (and it's been a long time since I've read it), split shifts are forbidden. You may be assigned to different locations during a shift which require costume changes, but that is technically not a split shift.

    A split shift involved clocking out and no pay.

    Parade people do split shifts all the time. For example, in the days of the Electric Parade (the real one), they would do the day parade, clock out, then come back and do Electric. That could be in excess of 12 hours a day, but paid only 8 because of the split shift.
    Actually our contract doesn't say anything forbidding split shifts. It only says that we must have 9 hours between shifts. They are almost never scheduled though, but there were some during Grad Nights. People got shifts on Thursday morning, then Grad Night shifts Thursday night, then shifts again on Friday night or afternoon.

    While your example is the correct definition of split shift, in foods it's common definition is the one I gave. It's just what we call shifts split between 2 locations.

    Leave a comment:


  • flynnibus
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by Ruiner View Post
    I like the cm cafeteria idea although i imagine if all you had to do was be a cm to eat free a lot of cm would just eat there all the time.
    He didn't mean 'free' by non-profit.. he meant run the food service at a break even point or at a loss as a perk to CMs. This would keep prices down, or at least keep prices in line with the quality of food.

    Leave a comment:


  • JeffYardDog
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by Lighthope View Post

    I agree with that, as well. But we can always throw things out. Let them know what is important to the rank and file slaves.
    Are there rank and file non-slaves ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lighthope
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by fantoongal View Post
    I don't think they meant split shifts like the rest of the world. One short morning shift, one short night shift. Split shifts in the sense that it's known in Disney happens quite frequently. I have a lot of CM's that get split shifts.

    Example: 4 hours working bar at the Bakery, then 6 hours of working food prep at Coke Corner. 4 hours food prep at Bakery, 4 hours baker at the Train.


    This happens a lot in foods, generally with OT.
    If I remember the Foods contract correctly (and it's been a long time since I've read it), split shifts are forbidden. You may be assigned to different locations during a shift which require costume changes, but that is technically not a split shift.

    A split shift involved clocking out and no pay.

    Parade people do split shifts all the time. For example, in the days of the Electric Parade (the real one), they would do the day parade, clock out, then come back and do Electric. That could be in excess of 12 hours a day, but paid only 8 because of the split shift.

    I think Show Service gets them as well, though I don't recall.

    I agree with MykeXero, though. The perfect contract will never come.
    I agree with that, as well. But we can always throw things out. Let them know what is important to the rank and file slaves.

    Lighthope

    Pearls of Wisdom - Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!

    --== TIGERS' QUEST - www.tigersquest.com
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    --== A CHRISTMAS SPECIAL - http://christmas.dwad.net

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  • Alpine
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    I really don't like the way wage rates scale, especially with this new overall raise. I like the raise of course, but someone with 4000+ hours and all possible cross-training is a lot more valuable and scarce than a new hire who can barely find a bathroom or work one easily-staffed location.

    The unions (foods is a great political example) really aren't helping anything, and the fact that I'm guessing around 5-15% of all CM's employed in the 3 year period between contract votes will actually see two or more doesn't keep them current or properly voted.

    Leave a comment:


  • wave789
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Trainer and Lead rates not only need to be different, but these premiums need to be greater. Me only making $1.25 more than my new hires is a joke. And when I'm a regular I make the same as new hires, despite having had a raise last year, because of the recent starting wage hike. This is an even bigger joke. The new Foods contract has hosts and cashiers making the same starting rate, despite the far greater responsibility of cashiers. Cashiers should have the greater starting rate, like they used to.

    Cast Commissaries should be nonprofit.

    Leave a comment:


  • fantoongal
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by Lighthope View Post
    No, this is a really bad idea. Disney will abuse this in ways you won't figure out until it is too late. Be prepared for a 4 hour shift, 4 hour break, and another 4 hour shift, resulting in a 12 hour work day with only 8 hours pay. Yeah, you get to sit around or bum around the resort for those 4 middle hours, but your day is shot. No going to the beach or doing anything really fun. Bad, bad idea.
    I don't think they meant split shifts like the rest of the world. One short morning shift, one short night shift. Split shifts in the sense that it's known in Disney happens quite frequently. I have a lot of CM's that get split shifts.

    Example: 4 hours working bar at the Bakery, then 6 hours of working food prep at Coke Corner. 4 hours food prep at Bakery, 4 hours baker at the Train.

    This happens a lot in foods, generally with OT. It's usually rough on the locations and leads, especially if one location gets really busy. When I got them I thought they were nice, cause it usually meant I had to change in between. Lots of walking time on top of my breaks.



    I agree with MykeXero, though. The perfect contract will never come. As long as Disney keeps getting more corporate and most of the decisions are coming from Burbank rather than TDA, us minions out on the front lines will be worth less and less to the bigger picture.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lighthope
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by MykeXero View Post
    The perfect contract, will never come. Without me getting too political, the current uh climate of the country isnt very union friendly.
    So it is your belief that the union is the key (or at least part of the key) to better wages.

    I strongly beg to differ.

    Disney has unions, but the union membership will not unite to fight for anything, thus Disney has no incentive to give them anything.

    Like government, CMs get the contract they deserve.

    Lighthope

    Pearls of Wisdom - Commandment VII: You shall not commit adultry.

    --== TIGERS' QUEST - www.tigersquest.com
    --== THE DOCTOR WHO AUDIO DRAMAS - www.dwad.net
    --== A CHRISTMAS SPECIAL - http://christmas.dwad.net

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  • MykeXero
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    The perfect contract, will never come. Without me getting too political, the current uh climate of the country isnt very union friendly. For the last many years, big companies are getting bigger... and the small guy is getting smaller.

    The sad thing is, wages for non-skilled jobs (like most of the disney jobs) have remained exactly the same for the last 30 years. Throw in some inflation, and people are actually making less over time. Nothing will stop this trend.

    Sure there happens to be a healthy employment market in the OC area, justifying this "raise", but the second there is an economic downturn and unemployment rises (which should happen sooner than later), you`ll see the wages frozen again.

    The sad fact of it is, if you want to get paid, goto school and get a career going. You cant even get into most Disney salaried jobs (like management) without a degree.

    I know a person whom has worked with the mouse since the 70`s, he makes about $16/hr.

    I just started a new job 2 weeks ago, and i make more than him. (The "perks" are really nice too, better than disney i dare say) Why? Beacuse im apparently "skilled" (my friends beg to differ hehe).

    Its sad but true, non-skilled jobs just don't pay anymore, and those jobs probably will never pay again.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojavewolfpup
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    $15/hour starting wage to do janitorial. for every one job that is easy to do, you've got others that demand a whole lot of work, like cleaning up vomit filled submarines in a rain storm for a 7 am early entry, and various other jobs. wages here are past the realm of good, more like awful. about a good 50-60% of my earnings a month go towards renting a dinky one bedroom room from someone, if I moved out, I either go to a slum with constant gang fights and graffiti, or move into a place that would consume about 90% of my monthly earnings.

    I frankly blame the very beast I work for driving the prices of rent and everything else sky high. wages have not increased with the amount of park visitors and cash pulled into the park, but the excuses from certain camps, fear of low income housing built around the resort's areas causing everything to look like hell, etc all combines to make a cm's life hell.

    if disney is so paranoid about auntie martha and her 950 crack babies moving into the resort corridors housing areas ruining the "show" they delicately spend the time spinning, yet breaking in other areas, why not create the solution yourself? make one of the hotels on your property a cast member rental area!

    I would gladly pay to rent a place on company property, it would make me feel more capable of doing my job. i'd rather have a quick 20 minute or less hop on a tram to harbor point versus what I have to take now to work. disney would also benefit, because as a result I have no real excuse to call in sick and spend my days recouping from work.

    on average, I can look at it taking about 4 hours a day via the bus system to go to work and back (2 one way, 2 another way) so make that a on average 11-12 hour day I work, 4 of that unpaid. move closer to the resort you say? hah. it's either time to look in slum lord areas around the resort, with horrible bus service (believe me, i've looked. alot of areas around it have bus service that last runs 8 pm at night, my shift starts at 12:10 am, so no go on that) or settle for a area with a 5 minute bus ride but at a cost of $980+ a month unfurnished right next to a sheraton. those of you who know the area, it's a place off wilken way.

    may I ask why the only people who get to experience a dream come true are those who file into the year of a million headaches gates everyday with visions of being a princess or buzz lightyear planted firmly in their brains, while cast members are forced to play second fiddle to a companies ever changing and demanding needs?

    putting aside all the hassles i'm mentioning, is the job a dream? yes it is, but only to a point. lets run down a list.

    managers with too much power in alot of cases, or misapplied power abilitys.

    larger and larger profits announced everyday (huge dca park renovation to the tune of $1 billion or so, princess division worth $4 billion, tween princess division worth $750 million or so, maingates alone pulling in $4 million a day before the overpriced churros and merchandise is pushed on the ticket holders) etc etc etc. need I go on?

    this does not factor in the massive cash windfalls pulled from movies, news/television networks, tv shows, and various other cornerstones of the disney empire.

    when do US employees, from the ride operator to the cash register operator to the cook to the janitor, start to see the benefit to all this cash going around? sorry, a "but you bring magic and smiles to millions a year" doesn't put food on my table and the ability to travel, oh never mind, that isn't possible with the aging seniority people taking all the prime travel times and leaving table scraps for the new hires.... "you are to be fully able at all times for the companies needs"

    ever wonder why retention rates are so bad? about 2-3 months ago, it was announced that 3rd shift custodial had about 47 openings. then it was down to about 18 or so. last week, it now has 29 openings or so. umm? people I hired in with have quit, been fired/terminated, or just left in disgust at the demands placed on a workforce that isn't even paid a fair wage in the first place.

    weed out the "oh, I can do anything! I can take a night schedule, and yet still go see all my hot new music bands then go into work" people who can't balance work and play, and you've got some left over that won't tolerate what is offered.

    is it the end of a era for people hiring into disney that want to at least grow in the company for 15 years or so, or more? sadly, I feel the answer is yes.

    Disneyland, the theme park started by a man with a dream, is now not much better then the mcdonalds right across the harbor pointe gate. the only difference between the two places? different businesses. the similar issues? those who walk through the door with the golden arches on their hat or through the gate with the disneyland logo on their shirt are probably going to just turn around and leave after finding out the stark reality.......

    Leave a comment:


  • mainstreetcm
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by Lighthope View Post
    If they are actually counting that as part of any serious compensation package, they are out of their minds!

    Disney wants you to come to the park so you can be familiar with it and be able to answer questions Guests have.

    Of course, they are not telling you that. They want you to think it's part of the compensation package.
    I've heard this run-around plenty of times. Working at Disney doesn't pay well but with the oft-touted "Disney Difference" from TDA and our managers Disney honestly and truly does not feel they need to pay more.

    State law overrides this.

    For breaks, I would rather go back to rotation breaks. Vastly superior, and I could work a 12 hour shift with no fatigue. As it stand now with CDS, I refuse to work OT and I never extend. Until CDS is gone, I work to schedule and no further.
    I also pray for the end of CDS. In our department I think it actually causes more headaches than it actually works. It is not as efficient as rotation breaks would be. I figured the breaks were set through our Unions and I thought the state only governed our 30 minute lunch.

    Believe it or not, walk-in time is part of the walk time at the end of the shift. Technically, it's half at the beginning and half at the end, all rolled together at the end.
    Fair enough. I didn't know they were just rolled into one.

    No, this is a really bad idea. Disney will abuse this in ways you won't figure out until it is too late. Be prepared for a 4 hour shift, 4 hour break, and another 4 hour shift, resulting in a 12 hour work day with only 8 hours pay. Yeah, you get to sit around or bum around the resort for those 4 middle hours, but your day is shot. No going to the beach or doing anything really fun. Bad, bad idea.
    Then it should at least be available as a preference. Some of us need to work more than 4 hours and with the current way it is done we have to try and extend that single shift. If Disney had the ability to give split shifts to those that preference them it would be easier to recieve 8 paid hours or more a day.

    Of course there needs to be policies to keep things in order (so CM's aren't standing around for long periods of time beyond shifts) but along with 12 hour shift intervals it could still be made available as a scheduling preference.

    I don't think Disney is going to give anyone a couple more dollars an hour to give up park admission. In fact, whether letting someone in one day a year or 365 days a year, it costs them virtually the same...unless there happens to be a mad rush of free admits, then staffing becomes an issue. However, that's not a real problem. If the Guests (or CMs) don't spend enough during their free day in the park, Disney just closes early. What, you don't think they do that? Oh, yes they do! They've done it before! I was there and saw it happen! (I got to go home early, so I was happy!)
    I understand where you are coming from but I was simply asking that IF Disney would offer you more dollars per hour would you give up your theme park admission privelages. And it does cost Disney to give us that privelage. Whether it "costs" Disney anything to give us that privelage or not is debatable.

    And so my question is not do you think Disney would offer us more dollars per hour but IF they did would you give up your park access for more pay?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lighthope
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by mainstreetcm View Post
    Disney feels that they don't NEED to pay us higher wages because of the "Disney Difference" they are often touting to everyone. Theme park admission is a big part of that Difference
    If they are actually counting that as part of any serious compensation package, they are out of their minds!

    Disney wants you to come to the park so you can be familiar with it and be able to answer questions Guests have.

    Of course, they are not telling you that. They want you to think it's part of the compensation package.

    Breaks: I would rather have one 15 minute break and then 45 minute lunch. Or I'd take no 15 minute break and have an hour lunch.
    State law overrides this.

    For breaks, I would rather go back to rotation breaks. Vastly superior, and I could work a 12 hour shift with no fatigue. As it stand now with CDS, I refuse to work OT and I never extend. Until CDS is gone, I work to schedule and no further.

    Walk in time: Even though it will never happen it would be nice if we could get some compensation for having to park in Klot and ride the shuttle over to harbor pointe.
    Believe it or not, walk-in time is part of the walk time at the end of the shift. Technically, it's half at the beginning and half at the end, all rolled together at the end.

    Split shifts: I'd like to have the ability to pick up another 4 hours shift in addition to the 4 hour shift that was scheduled.
    No, this is a really bad idea. Disney will abuse this in ways you won't figure out until it is too late. Be prepared for a 4 hour shift, 4 hour break, and another 4 hour shift, resulting in a 12 hour work day with only 8 hours pay. Yeah, you get to sit around or bum around the resort for those 4 middle hours, but your day is shot. No going to the beach or doing anything really fun. Bad, bad idea.

    Wages: As I mentioned before. Would you give up your park admission privelages to gain a couple more dollars per hour?
    I don't think Disney is going to give anyone a couple more dollars an hour to give up park admission. In fact, whether letting someone in one day a year or 365 days a year, it costs them virtually the same...unless there happens to be a mad rush of free admits, then staffing becomes an issue. However, that's not a real problem. If the Guests (or CMs) don't spend enough during their free day in the park, Disney just closes early. What, you don't think they do that? Oh, yes they do! They've done it before! I was there and saw it happen! (I got to go home early, so I was happy!)

    Lighthope

    Pearls of Wisdom - Who'd have thought that "'Till death do us part" would take so long.

    --== TIGERS' QUEST - www.tigersquest.com
    --== THE DOCTOR WHO AUDIO DRAMAS - www.dwad.net
    --== A CHRISTMAS SPECIAL - http://christmas.dwad.net

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  • mrfantasmic
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    I'm pretty sure State Law only mandates 10 mins and a half hour. At least, Starbucks does 10 minutes for its numerous breaks and 30 for lunch.
    45 for lunch and 10 minute breaks is actually reducing paid breaks 5 minutes.
    This could only really work in Attractions, stores, and Foods (non ODV) for the most part, where break areas are close to work areas. ODV has to get off stage.

    Leave a comment:


  • JeffYardDog
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Originally posted by mrfantasmic View Post
    Lead rate and trainer rate should be different.
    Split shifts are a great idea.
    As for breaks, I'd like to see two 10s and one 45. That would make it a bit easier to eat, but wouldn't change lunch to social hour.
    Breaks and lunches are. for the most part, governed by state law. Disney isn't going to change that or it's basic policies based upon it unless it decides to get exceedingly generous and pay for them or extend them with pay. Like that's going to happen ....

    Leave a comment:


  • mrfantasmic
    replied
    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Lead rate and trainer rate should be different.
    Split shifts are a great idea.
    As for breaks, I'd like to see two 10s and one 45. That would make it a bit easier to eat, but wouldn't change lunch to social hour.

    Leave a comment:

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