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Should Knott's Reconsider their Security Barriers?

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  • Should Knott's Reconsider their Security Barriers?

    (Firstly, the intention of this thread is to "talk shop" not politics. This is not a debate on gun laws or regulations; this is not a debate on increasing or decreasing police presence. All points function under the assumption that circumstances related to politics will remain static and unchanged, and thus, we are considering how Knott's can change THEIR security measures. Any snide "gotcha" comments like "well things will change in 4 more years/after the recall.." WILL be flagged and reported by me.)

    Relavent Link: https://www.ocregister.com/2021/07/0...D6fEwTj2bRodQQ

    After the incident this Friday, the 9th, a question that has popped up on theme park related social media is, whether Knott's should consider changing their security barrier around the park to prevent the reaction guests had. All things considered, the incident in question was thankfully isolated to the drop off area, and both individuals shot at appear to be headed towards recovery; but within the park, the reaction of guests seemed to be largely chaotic, with videos on social media showing guests spilling out of the park, or slipping into employee/maintenance areas to hide. Some employees apparently helped hide guests in work areas and walk in fridge/freezers, until it was confirmed that the shooting was a drive by, and no shooter was inside the park.

    Because of what we saw happen Friday, and the amount of initial uncertainty, is it likely we will see attempts by Knott's to try and isolate parts of the property, similar to what we see at Disney, and Universal, so that if another incident, shooting, etc, were to occure, Knott's could be more certain that sections inside the park were safe, and they could more precisely move guests around and out of the park Incase of evacuation? Or, is the design of Knott's simply too "open," that the best option going forward would be more emergency exists to funnel guests out of?

    If there are former Knott's workers, I would also be interested in hearing what internal practices for situations like this were in place when you worked there.
    Last edited by SkunkID; 07-11-2021, 12:52 PM.

  • #2
    I have been reading as much as I can about this incident and one thing I think seemingly was a failure on Knott’s part was there did not seem to be a cohesive plan amongst employees to both communicate what was going on amongst the staff and no park wide means to help inform guests. Does Knott’s have a park wide PA they could have told guests to ‘remain calm as there is a situation outside the park” etc. or are the employees linked via park wide communication where a code could be announced to staff? The ability of a crowd to be set into a frenzy is very easy. We have laws against yelling “fire” in crowded places such as movie theaters because we as humans find panic to be so contagious.

    Buena Park, Anaheim, universal City & Valencia are all cities in SoCal with theme/amusement parks and where there has been gang violence, none of them are south central LA in the 80’s but they are not the safest of cities either. what Knott’s I feel would benefit from is a bit more of a buffer from the surrounding areas and or security more present in it’s lot areas.
    Disneyland Fan since the 70's

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Starcade View Post
      I have been reading as much as I can about this incident and one thing I think seemingly was a failure on Knott’s part was there did not seem to be a cohesive plan amongst employees to both communicate what was going on amongst the staff and no park wide means to help inform guests. Does Knott’s have a park wide PA they could have told guests to ‘remain calm as there is a situation outside the park” etc. or are the employees linked via park wide communication where a code could be announced to staff? The ability of a crowd to be set into a frenzy is very easy. We have laws against yelling “fire” in crowded places such as movie theaters because we as humans find panic to be so contagious.

      Buena Park, Anaheim, universal City & Valencia are all cities in SoCal with theme/amusement parks and where there has been gang violence, none of them are south central LA in the 80’s but they are not the safest of cities either. what Knott’s I feel would benefit from is a bit more of a buffer from the surrounding areas and or security more present in it’s lot areas.
      What alot of people online, and even the OC reg article seems to point out is, how "easy" it was for people to be sent into a frenzy. They mentioned people jumping out of their bumper cars as someone was screaming "gun!" which is EXACTLY the opposite of what you never want to happen, and likely part of why a scramble into the backstage area, where is seems even employees were unsure of what was happening, and were hiding guests and themselves.

      I was actually extremely curious as to why they didn't use the PA system myself. They've been using one set up for the recent anniversary celebration (the lighting ceremony), and while it can be assumed it might be set up only for recordings, it shouldn't be TOO HARD, to patch in a microphone and make an emergency announcement.

      My intention was mostly about security to limit entrance into the park. But you raise a very good point at how, communications within the park also seems to be subpar, ESPECIALLY while they are trying to bring people in after the quarantine and during an anniversary that has been planned for multiple years now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SkunkID View Post
        (Firstly, the intention of this thread is to "talk shop" not politics. This is not a debate on gun laws or regulations; this is not a debate on increasing or decreasing police presence. All points function under the assumption that circumstances related to politics will remain static and unchanged, and thus, we are considering how Knott's can change THEIR security measures. Any snide "gotcha" comments like "well things will change in 4 more years/after the recall.." WILL be flagged and reported by me.)

        Relavent Link: https://www.ocregister.com/2021/07/0...D6fEwTj2bRodQQ

        After the incident this Friday, the 9th, a question that has popped up on theme park related social media is, whether Knott's should consider changing their security barrier around the park to prevent the reaction guests had. All things considered, the incident in question was thankfully isolated to the drop off area, and both individuals shot at appear to be headed towards recovery; but within the park, the reaction of guests seemed to be largely chaotic, with videos on social media showing guests spilling out of the park, or slipping into employee/maintenance areas to hide. Some employees apparently helped hide guests in work areas and walk in fridge/freezers, until it was confirmed that the shooting was a drive by, and no shooter was inside the park.

        Because of what we saw happen Friday, and the amount of initial uncertainty, is it likely we will see attempts by Knott's to try and isolate parts of the property, similar to what we see at Disney, and Universal, so that if another incident, shooting, etc, were to occure, Knott's could be more certain that sections inside the park were safe, and they could more precisely move guests around and out of the park Incase of evacuation? Or, is the design of Knott's simply too "open," that the best option going forward would be more emergency exists to funnel guests out of?

        If there are former Knott's workers, I would also be interested in hearing what internal practices for situations like this were in place when you worked there.
        Drive by shootings are not that uncommon in this part of the OC. And that being said, the park entrance(s) (used to be several entrance/exits) was always right off of public streets--therefore never any 'buffer' the way Disneyland or Magic Mountain were designed. At Knotts parking was originally free, as was access to the Ghost Town. To create a larger buffer from the park entrance and the public roads would require space which isn't available.

        Personally I would just see this as a one off type of situation, probably by your average youthful street gang thugs. The larger problem for Knott's, same as many other public places, is that if there ever was a coordinated terrorist attack, the entrance/drop off area becomes a very easy "soft target" for attack, the same way they are at airport drop off zones. It is just very hard to protect against that kind of thing.

        What we need more education on here in America is how citizens should react to shooting incidents. How not to panic, and how to react in ways which are better than the chaotic way it often happens. What is correct to do as soon as you hear shooting is to 'seek cover'. Which is more than just running and crouching. Find shelter around or behind barriers sufficient to stop bullets. If you crouch behind a car, make sure it is behind the engine block.

        I'm glad to hear Knott's employees were helping guests find shelter. I'm sure the Knotts employees receive some instruction on mass shootings, and helping guests into backstage areas is the right thing to do. Then after more is known about where the shooting is taking place, I'm sure the employees have emergency egress routes for not only employees and guests. But initial chaos is pretty common. I just think people need to understand that ducking and crouching may not be as good a strategy and running away. In the Las Vegas shooting a lot of people crouched down, but then just become stationary targets to the shooter above them. Either run away or seek appropriate cover is the better strategy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Chief Leaky War Canoe View Post

          Drive by shootings are not that uncommon in this part of the OC. And that being said, the park entrance(s) (used to be several entrance/exits) was always right off of public streets--therefore never any 'buffer' the way Disneyland or Magic Mountain were designed. At Knotts parking was originally free, as was access to the Ghost Town. To create a larger buffer from the park entrance and the public roads would require space which isn't available.

          Personally I would just see this as a one off type of situation, probably by your average youthful street gang thugs. The larger problem for Knott's, same as many other public places, is that if there ever was a coordinated terrorist attack, the entrance/drop off area becomes a very easy "soft target" for attack, the same way they are at airport drop off zones. It is just very hard to protect against that kind of thing.

          What we need more education on here in America is how citizens should react to shooting incidents. How not to panic, and how to react in ways which are better than the chaotic way it often happens. What is correct to do as soon as you hear shooting is to 'seek cover'. Which is more than just running and crouching. Find shelter around or behind barriers sufficient to stop bullets. If you crouch behind a car, make sure it is behind the engine block.

          I'm glad to hear Knott's employees were helping guests find shelter. I'm sure the Knotts employees receive some instruction on mass shootings, and helping guests into backstage areas is the right thing to do. Then after more is known about where the shooting is taking place, I'm sure the employees have emergency egress routes for not only employees and guests. But initial chaos is pretty common. I just think people need to understand that ducking and crouching may not be as good a strategy and running away. In the Las Vegas shooting a lot of people crouched down, but then just become stationary targets to the shooter above them. Either run away or seek appropriate cover is the better strategy.
          This is all very true. I do not think this situation had anything to do with Knott's. Even though Orange County has many of the safest cities in the entire country we also also have some that are also ranked as the most dangerous in CA. Often on the list of the most dangerous you will find Santa Ana, Anaheim (especially in the areas around DLR) , Buena Park, Stanton, Garden Grove, they are all bundled in a cluster together. Basically as soon as you leave Irvine heading north on the 5 fwy you start to see the crime rates increase as you head into east LA.

          Regarding the drop off area, Knotts could turn the entry gates 90 degrees and have guests both enter and exit through the shopping area. They could put up some sort of wall or bern right now insulating the entrance from Grand Avenue/Beach Blvd. but I wonder if they feel that the view of the grand entrance is more important to them? I felt the last time we were there the entrance was a bit compress and would have been better situated coming up from the South rather than in from the East giving people more room to line up. Disneyland also has an issue as they have a glut of people often gathered not only at the drop off area but also on the street funneling into it from hotels at all hours of the morning. Sure their gates facing each other on the esplanade are away from Harbor but often the crowds on harbor are as dense as those in the esplanade.

          I once took a seasonal supplemental job once at one of the biggest hardware big box home improvement stores when I was a fledgling freelancer and about a third of the training was on security and active shooter situations. We were taught everything from where and how to hide and how to help customers etc. I would hope theme park employees are also well trained in these situations.
          Disneyland Fan since the 70's

          Comment

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