Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

Collapse

Get Away Today

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Re: Coaster Accident at Knott's Berry Farm

    Originally posted by ducksman View Post
    Darkbeer-

    The difference is when the chain or cable on most roller coasters and drop towers break nobody gets injured. When they break on an Intamin ride people lose their feet, fall out of their vehicles or get lacerations.

    When was the last time you heard of someone getting injured when the cable broke on an S&S drop tower? What about a Schwarzkopf shuttle loop, and those have been in operation much longer than Intamin's rocket coasters.

    It seems to me the designer of these rides is not taking into account the affect a "normal" malfunction would have on riders.
    But when a rope breaks at Disneyland, someone dies..... (aka the Columbia incident).

    As I said before, things happen, and they are not perfect.

    Did Disney use the WRONG type of rope for the Columbia... YES. They made a major mistake, as the rope should have broke prior to ripping off the cleat on the deck. (They used a stronger Nylon version that pulled the cleat off the deck and caused a death of a guest.)

    The thread is talking about the incident that happened yesterday at Knott's, and based on everything I know (and yes, some inside info), the ONLY thing that failed was the cable. Something that has happened to EVERY ride manufacturer.
    Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

    Comment


    • #42
      Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

      Again Darkbeer you are glossing over the fact that when a chain or cable on any other ride breaks nobody is ever hurt. Every other ride manufacturer seems to be able to design their rides so that if normal wear and tear failures happen nobody gets hurt. On an Intamin ride people get seriously hurt or die.

      The Columbia incident was mostly operator error and improper materials. Not a design flaw in the ship.

      Comment


      • #43
        Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

        People die on Indiana Jones... People die on Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, People die on Mission Space... CM dies on America Sings... A kid dies on Roger Rabbit Cartoon Spin... CM dies driving the WDW Monorail... CM dies operating Primeval Whril...

        To try and claim that it is "just" an Intermin problem is a joke!
        Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

        Comment


        • #44
          Re: Coaster Accident at Knott's Berry Farm

          Originally posted by ducksman View Post
          Again Darkbeer you are glossing over the fact that when a chain or cable on any other ride breaks nobody is ever hurt. Every other ride manufacturer seems to be able to design their rides so that if normal wear and tear failures happen nobody gets hurt. On an Intamin ride people get seriously hurt or die.

          The Columbia incident was mostly operator error and improper materials. Not a design flaw in the ship.
          Who got seriously hurt on Xcelerator on Thursday??? NO-ONE!

          The safety systems worked just as designed... NO Design flaws, just a cable that has an expected life span that is unpredictable.

          Just like your Transmission in your car. You get a warranty when you buy it for so many miles, and the vast majority never need to make a claim, but on occasion, a transmission does fail, usually due to metal failure. Is that a design flaw, or just the fact that sometimes things break for no other reason that the fact it didn't last as long as expected.
          Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

          Comment


          • #45
            Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

            No one claims that it is "just intamin." What we do claim however is that Intamin rides injure more people due to mechanical failure far more than any other ride manufacturer. A cable failing and showering riders with white hot debris and causing lacerations seems to be a serious problem to me. Have you seen the video? I can only hope that such an event would never happen to you or me, Darkbeer.

            If you were showered with white hot debris and trapped in your seat above a smoldering, very hot malfunctioning cable like the riders on Xcelerator were, I doubt you would be thinking "Oh well, accidents happen." And as you were in immense pain from the open gash on your foot, I don't think you would be thinking "I don't think the manufacturer is at fault at all for this." And then when you found out that a ride designed by the same manufacturer using many of the same cable parts and assemblies malfunctioned a couple of years earlier and severed a girls feet off, I don't think you'd be saying "Intamin is just as succeptable to accidents as every other manufacturer."

            Comment


            • #46
              Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

              The video is gone from YouTube but you can find it at these two sites sans sound:

              Caught on Tape: Coaster Attacks Two at Knott's Berry Farm | NBC Los Angeles

              Snapped Cable Injures Kid on CoasterVideo

              Comment


              • #47
                Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                Full video with sound... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ0p42XfcRg]YouTube - knotts berry farm - accident[/ame]I know some of you are "downplaying" this accident as if it's happens everyday, well it doesn't, and the riders were scared and did get hurt (the teen had serious leg cuts). You can stand up for Intamin & Knott's as much as you'd like to Darkbeer... but this shouldn't happen.

                I'm glad no one was killed. Intamin has had many issues in the past with cable snaps on lift hills, launched coasters and freefall drop rides.

                Reading back through the posts... man Darkbeer, you really need to relax. Why are you so hateful towards anyone who thinks this is NOT NORMAL AND SHOULD NOT HAPPEN? This is a serious accident, as I said before, I'm glad no one was killed or hurt worse... if they were, then would you care?
                Last edited by Wesley815; 09-19-2009, 03:28 AM.
                -Wes

                Comment


                • #48
                  Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                  Originally posted by Wesley815 View Post
                  Reading back through the posts... man Darkbeer, you really need to relax. Why are you so hateful towards anyone who thinks this is NOT NORMAL AND SHOULD NOT HAPPEN? This is a serious accident, as I said before, I'm glad no one was killed or hurt worse... if they were, then would you care?
                  Sorry, but you really need to read his posts again. Any time you are on anything mechanical, you are taking a risk. I'm sure we all know someone personally who has been in a car accident, or been in a car accident themselves? Perhaps injured severely? Is that normal? Should it happen? Yet we all still seem to get in those cars, don't we?

                  You are right, it should not happen. But emphasis on the should. But reality and human oversight sometimes get in the way. The Space Shuttle should have been safe, but look at it's record. Was that normal? Should it have happened? Of course not. Still happened anyway, because machines are made and overlooked by humans, who make mistakes.

                  And for all you Intamin blamers, I grant you have a certain point. But I can also counter argue that Intamin makes a greater variety of rides with a greater variety of mechanics, giving a larger opportunity for things to go wrong. Things probably don't go wrong with B & M because, from a largely operational point of their, they're all the same. They don't make rocket coasters, flumes, twisters, hypers, cable lifts, etc. With greater innovation comes greater risk.

                  Let's not also forget the troubles Chance had with their Chaos rides falling off the axle. Intiman is not the only one with a marred record.
                  Does anyone even bother with signatures anymore?

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                    Please note the different between the following two sentences:
                    1. Intamin is the only manufacturer that has accidents resulting in injury or death
                    2. Intamin has a grossly disproportionate rate of accidents resulting in injury or death

                    We're not ignoring the fact that accidents (while rare) can and do happen. We're simply saying that both this exact accident and so many other mechanical issues plague Intamin, while almost everyone else in the industry engineers rides with almost no problems, by comparison. Chalking the failure up to chance seems to ignore decades of Schwarzkopf launch coaster operation.

                    Jester, when you say "With greater innovation comes greater risk.", the overwhelming thought I have has that we're not talking about NASA, we're not talking about fighter jets or nanotechnology. These are amusement park rides, the public has a RIGHT to expect safety. And while there's no way to guarantee it, they at lease deserve to only be exposed to rides build by engineers who have placed safety and reliability above all else, including novelty and variety.

                    Yeah, Intamin has a huge variety of rides, but how in the world does that excuses multiple accidents on many of them? I would suggest that they focus on engineering quality instead of quantity then, because being able to do a variety of things poorly compared to others in the industry, well, that's not something to be proud of.
                    www.gregscoasterphotos.com <- Go there, it's good!

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                      Originally posted by sarki7 View Post
                      2. Intamin has a grossly disproportionate rate of accidents resulting in injury or death
                      PLEASE prove this, based on skimming the information on deaths at the site below, I don't see Intamin standing out at all...

                      RideAccidents.com
                      Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Re: Coaster Accident at Knott's Berry Farm

                        Originally posted by ducksman View Post
                        A cable failing and showering riders with white hot debris and causing lacerations seems to be a serious problem to me.
                        White hot debris???... I have not heard this from any other source....

                        Yes, some hydraulic fluid and pieces of fiberglass show up in the video, and some plastic coating that protected the cable came off. But the cable itself did not cause debris, the ends broke off (sheared) into two pieces. It did NOT disintegrate.

                        Sounds like the wording is very inflammatory and not a true description of the events from yesterday.

                        It should be interesting to be able to read the DOSH report when it is released.

                        How many stitches, if ANY did the young boy need for the cut(s) re received?
                        Last edited by Darkbeer; 09-19-2009, 11:28 AM. Reason: typo - counting changed to coating
                        Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                          Originally posted by Wesley815 View Post
                          the riders were scared and did get hurt (the teen had serious leg cuts).
                          First off, as I understand it, it was only the 2 people in the front row that got really scared, everyone else had no major issues...

                          And as for serious Leg cuts... Says who???

                          From the LA Times

                          Knott's Berry Farm roller coaster shut down after accident injures 2 | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times


                          Paramedics had to pull the man, who complained of back and neck injuries, from the ride, said Capt. George Casario of the Orange County Fire Authority. Both the man and the boy, who are not related, were taken to hospitals with mild to moderate injuries.
                          I think I tend to beleive the LA Times, unless you can prove it was something more than "mild to moderate" cuts to his leg.
                          Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                            I don't think it's smart to comment either way on what injuries did or did NOT happen. We're not doctors, the video isn't conclusive, and we just don't know. Two people received injuries, which luckily were not life threatening and appear not to be seriously debilitating. I don't think the point really is how bad the injuries are anyway. This incident has happened before. Injuries happened both times. They could be worse next time. That is unacceptable.

                            Originally posted by Darkbeer View Post
                            PLEASE prove this, based on skimming the information on deaths at the site below, I don't see Intamin standing out at all...

                            RideAccidents.com
                            Are you serious? What other major manufacturer has had anything approaching the number of accidents? Did you notice that quick link on the left side highlight the series of Intamin incidents?

                            The following is just a sample of the Intamin rides that had have moderate to serious mechanical/design malfunctions:
                            Drop Zone - PGA
                            Superman - SFKK
                            Kingda Ka - SFGAdv
                            Top Thrill Dragster - CP
                            Hydrop - Oakwood
                            Perilous Plunge - KBF
                            Xcelerator - KBF
                            Superman - SFNE (multiple incidents)
                            Superman - Darien Lake
                            Raft Ride - Walibi Belgium
                            Raft Ride - SFOT
                            Drop Tower - Port Aventura

                            And for B&M, Arrow, S&S, Vekoma, and all the wooden coaster manufacturers:
                            Orient Express - WoF
                            Chang - SFKK
                            Ghostrider - KBF

                            Aside from downtime and reliability issues (especially with Vekoma, e.g. lift stalls), I'm hard pressed to think of any more incidents that are directly related to the design or mechanics of the ride system. There may be a few I'm forgetting, so neither list is exhaustive.

                            I realize that in the grand scheme, you're much more likely to be injured on a no-name ride manufacturer in some small park or fair. But I don't think its unreasonable to hold one of the most prolific companies in the industry, whose rides are exposed to millions of more people every year - to a high level of design and engineering quality that we expect from every other major manufacturer.
                            Last edited by sarki7; 09-19-2009, 12:00 PM.
                            www.gregscoasterphotos.com <- Go there, it's good!

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                              If Intamin is such a horrible manufacturer, why in the hell do parks ALL over the world continue to work with them to create new rides? Do you really think that parks go "Let's build another Intamin ride, so we can maim people!"?

                              For ride manufacturers when you want to talk sheer numbers of rides and riders, you didn't even mention Togo or Meisho...
                              See more of my horrible photos (and a few good ones) at my Flickr photostream

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                                ^^While I don't know about all those accidents (and I'm going to admit I'm not going to look into them all), I can say that I believe the Perilous Plunge was from not following manufacture's directions, and Drop Zone, while never fully explained, seems to largely be the rider's fault. So really, those can be taken off the list.

                                Even if we still account the ones that remain, it doesn't strike me as exceptional. While I'll freely say I have no statistics to back me up, it seems Intamin has more rides out there than B&M, S&S, etc. Let's say for arguement's sake, Intamin has 500 rides of various kinds in the world, and B&M has 250 (numbers I am completely making up to illustrate a statistical point). If both companies have a 5% mechanical accident rate, Intamin has 25 accidents, and B&M only has about 12. Does that really make B&M any safer? Of course not.

                                Besides, if you go by that "left quick link column" at rideaccidents.com, there's a link for Disneyland--which shows just as many accidents as Intamin, if not more! By your same logic, you should be avoiding and scolding Disneyland for their poor safety record.

                                For the record, I've been logging onto this board for a long time, and Darkbeer is one of the most knowledgeable amusement park guys I have ever known--and he is one of the most fair. If he has an opinion, there's usually a damn good reason for it.
                                Does anyone even bother with signatures anymore?

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                                  Originally posted by CoasterMatt View Post
                                  If Intamin is such a horrible manufacturer, why in the hell do parks ALL over the world continue to work with them to create new rides? Do you really think that parks go "Let's build another Intamin ride, so we can maim people!"?
                                  For goodness sakes, it doesn't really help the discussion to take it to such an absurd level. I never said Intamin was "horrible". I never implied parks want to "maim people". If you want my personal opinion, I think their rides are often mind-blowing, but not worth the pathetic reliability and suspect safety record.

                                  As far as parks choosing work with them, just take a look at hypercoasters. When was the last time Intamin built one in the US. B&M has dominated that market for years now. Are Intamin coasters better from a ride experience standpoint? Maybe. But I would contend that parks have realized that there are safer and reliable options that the general public still responds overwhelmingly to.

                                  Yes, we have seen a number of designs and technologies, but when you look back on the long history of the amusement industry, it's hard to ignore how parks/operators have focused on novelty (i.e., profits) over safety time and time again. Does that make it good? My opinion is no.

                                  Originally posted by CoasterMatt View Post
                                  For ride manufacturers when you want to talk sheer numbers of rides and riders, you didn't even mention Togo or Meisho...
                                  Sure, those are two big manufacturers, mostly in Asia. How many major mechanical issues have they have? I'm not aware of any. I did remember one non-Intamin one - Steel Dragon 2000 at Nagashima Spaland. That is a Morgan.

                                  Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                  ^^While I don't know about all those accidents (and I'm going to admit I'm not going to look into them all), I can say that I believe the Perilous Plunge was from not following manufacture's directions, and Drop Zone, while never fully explained, seems to largely be the rider's fault. So really, those can be taken off the list.
                                  Largely the rider's fault? Or entirely the riders fault? How many people have fallen out of an S&S freefall? See what I mean about excusing Intamin as "accidents happen"? Like I said, I'm not saying Intamin is 100% to blame for each and every incident on that list. But to assert that Intamin had NOTHING to do with them (especially when you ADMIT you have no interest in looking at the details of the accident), well that's just silly.

                                  Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                  Even if we still account the ones that remain, it doesn't strike me as exceptional. While I'll freely say I have no statistics to back me up, it seems Intamin has more rides out there than B&M, S&S, etc. Let's say for arguement's sake, Intamin has 500 rides of various kinds in the world, and B&M has 250 (numbers I am completely making up to illustrate a statistical point). If both companies have a 5% mechanical accident rate, Intamin has 25 accidents, and B&M only has about 12. Does that really make B&M any safer? Of course not.
                                  It's pretty clear you're making up the numbers, as they don't reflect reality in any way, shape or form. B&M safety record is all but flawless. Besides the chain break on Chang, there is nothing. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever been injured on a B&M coaster as a result of a mechanical/design malfunction. When you look at ACTUAL numbers, there is NO question B&M is safer than Intamin. To imply otherwise suggests that you are considerably uninformed and unfamiliar with the industry.

                                  Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                  Besides, if you go by that "left quick link column" at rideaccidents.com, there's a link for Disneyland--which shows just as many accidents as Intamin, if not more! By your same logic, you should be avoiding and scolding Disneyland for their poor safety record.
                                  You miss my point yet again. I'm not saying Intamin is the ONLY player that has had a series of injuries and accidents. I'm saying their history as compared to other similar companies is pathetic. You can try and compare a park to a ride manufacturer - and maybe Disney HAS had more incidents, but I'm not quite sure how that is relevant as we are talking about the engineering and design of rides. And most importantly - when Disney DOES cause an injury or death as a result of poor engineering, maintenance, or design - OF COURSE they should be scolded, held to task, and not allowed to get excused on the "accidents happen" attitude. Can we stop pretending that saying "Intamin has issues" means "ONLY Intamin has issues".

                                  Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                  For the record, I've been logging onto this board for a long time, and Darkbeer is one of the most knowledgeable amusement park guys I have ever known--and he is one of the most fair. If he has an opinion, there's usually a damn good reason for it.
                                  Gosh, I didn't realize that was how the internet worked. I guess I'll take my years of intimate following of the amusement industry, education in human factors engineering, and simple right to state my opinion and yield to someone who has been posting on micechat longer than I have!

                                  (Sorry Darkbeers, didn't mean to drag you into this. I have no personal issue whatsoever, but Jester seems to think your mere presence here has earned you "correctness". Respect, sure - but that's plenty by itself.)
                                  Last edited by sarki7; 09-19-2009, 06:49 PM.
                                  www.gregscoasterphotos.com <- Go there, it's good!

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                                    Originally posted by sarki7 View Post
                                    Largely the rider's fault? Or entirely the riders fault? How many people have fallen out of an S&S freefall? See what I mean about excusing Intamin as "accidents happen"? Like I said, I'm not saying Intamin is 100% to blame for each and every incident on that list. But to assert that Intamin had NOTHING to do with them (especially when you ADMIT you have no interest in looking at the details of the accident), well that's just silly.
                                    I have to say "largely" on the PGA Drop Zone incident because, as rideaccidents.com itself states, the investigation was inconclusive. But suspicions point to the rider, who was mentally challenged. It's not that I have no interest in looking at the details, but simply that I don't have the time right now. I'm too busy replying to your posts. And I didn't assert Intamin has nothing to do with them--when did I say that? I merely state not all are mechanical issues.

                                    It's pretty clear you're making up the numbers, as they don't reflect reality in any way, shape or form. B&M safety record is all but flawless. Besides the chain break on Chang, there is nothing. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever been injured on a B&M coaster as a result of a mechanical/design malfunction. When you look at ACTUAL numbers, there is NO question B&M is safer than Intamin. To imply otherwise suggests that you are considerably uninformed and unfamiliar with the industry.
                                    Yeah, if you read my post, it is pretty clear I'm making up numbers. I even said I was! I was trying to make a statistical point that number of accidents does not necessarily indicate anything. To be honest, from a mechanical point of view, it doesn't impress me all that much that B&M has a great safety record--all their rides basically operate in the exact same way! They all have a chain lift, they all have 4 across seating, their ride layouts and elements are all similar. From a mechanical point of view, they essentially have one model. It'd better work, or else every ride they have would be breaking down!

                                    You miss my point yet again. I'm not saying Intamin is the ONLY player that has had a series of injuries and accidents. I'm saying their history as compared to other similar companies is pathetic. You can try and compare a park to a ride manufacturer - and maybe Disney HAS had more incidents, but I'm not quite sure how that is relevant as we are talking about the engineering and design of rides. And most importantly - when Disney DOES cause an injury or death as a result of poor engineering, maintenance, or design - OF COURSE they should be scolded, held to task, and not allowed to get excused on the "accidents happen" attitude. Can we stop pretending that saying "Intamin has issues" means "ONLY Intamin has issues".
                                    I can't pretend saying that you saying "Intamin has issues" means "ONLY Intamin has issues" because in fact, you are singling out Intamin. Numerous times. I'm the one that pointed out Chance had issues with the Chaos flat ride--the only other faulty manufacturer that's been brought to the discussion. Did I somehow miss all the other companies with issues that you brought up?

                                    That aside, I think I know what you intended. You are saying Intamin's record is disproportionate relative to other companies. Right? While I would debate even that, it's a more valid point. But that's not how you're phrasing it, and I think this is where some of the confusion and frustration is coming into play.

                                    And I brought up Disneyland's record because you seem to be implying that Intamin should be admonished or their poor safety, while Disney's is equally poor, and no one seems to notice or care--at least, not to the extent you're bringing Intamin into it.

                                    Gosh, I didn't realize that was how the internet worked. I guess I'll take my years of intimate following of the amusement industry, education in human factors engineering, and simple right to state my opinion and yield to someone who has been posting on micechat longer than I have!

                                    (Sorry Darkbeers, didn't mean to drag you into this. I have no personal issue whatsoever, but Jester seems to think your mere presence here has earned you "correctness". Respect, sure - but that's plenty by itself.)
                                    You get an opinion, I get an opinion. But Darkbeers has a presence that goes well beyond what he contributes here. And I don't recall you asking about my credentials, but I've been following the amusement industry for a long time myself. Now, does that make me better than you? Of course not. I don't know anything specific about your background, and you don't know anything about mine. That's what sucks about the internet, unfortunately. In any case, I didn't mean to imply that your opinion is to be diminished, so if you took it that way, I apologize. You get to state what you believe, and I get to state what I believe.

                                    All that said, a new point: one semi-common thread in these Intamin accidents is the cable failing on various rides. Should the cable manufacturer be brought into this, more than Intamin?
                                    Does anyone even bother with signatures anymore?

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                                      Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                      And I didn't assert Intamin has nothing to do with them--when did I say that? I merely state not all are mechanical issues.
                                      True, though you did say they should be taken off the list. That's a strong implication that they are not at all to blame for the incident.

                                      Just to be clear, a design doesn't have to BREAK to be poor engineering. Designs need to account for the fact that riders and operators will make errors. This is a fundamental principle of Human-Machine systems.

                                      Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                      Yeah, if you read my post, it is pretty clear I'm making up numbers. I even said I was! I was trying to make a statistical point that number of accidents does not necessarily indicate anything.
                                      Sorry, I just don't see how you can make a "statistical point" when you have numbers that are so completely inaccurate. What's the point of statistics if the data they are based on is wrong?

                                      Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                      To be honest, from a mechanical point of view, it doesn't impress me all that much that B&M has a great safety record--all their rides basically operate in the exact same way! They all have a chain lift, they all have 4 across seating, their ride layouts and elements are all similar. From a mechanical point of view, they essentially have one model. It'd better work, or else every ride they have would be breaking down!
                                      Besides the fact that you're ignoring a huge number of other complicated ride systems that a coaster has besides the lift, and the mistake of saying all B&M's are 4-abreast, I don't see how this is relevant. To say B&M have not innovated in the industry is completely inaccurate. I would never suggest that they have the variety or novelty of Intamin, but to suggest everything they do is basic and uncomplex is going too far in my opinion. Perhaps you think the safety and reliable compromises Intamin has made are worth the extremeties of their design. That's fine, but I sure don't.

                                      Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                      I can't pretend saying that you saying "Intamin has issues" means "ONLY Intamin has issues" because in fact, you are singling out Intamin. Numerous times. I'm the one that pointed out Chance had issues with the Chaos flat ride--the only other faulty manufacturer that's been brought to the discussion. Did I somehow miss all the other companies with issues that you brought up?
                                      I brought up issues with Arrow, Vekoma, Morgan and B&M. I have said repeatedly that no one is immune from accidents. I explained how you're much more likely to get injured at a small park or fair on a no-name ride. If it seems like I'm singling out Intamin, I can only say that it's probably because this accident was on an Intamin ride. Beyond that, the focus is there because when it comes to major manufacturers, frankly, there is more to focus on. I'm not sure how get around that.


                                      Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                      That aside, I think I know what you intended. You are saying Intamin's record is disproportionate relative to other companies. Right? While I would debate even that, it's a more valid point. But that's not how you're phrasing it, and I think this is where some of the confusion and frustration is coming into play.
                                      Agreed, while I would contend that my phrasing is just fine, (e.g., when I said, "You're making the mistake of focusing on the absolute number of accidents, not the relative comparison to everyone else in the industry who manages to put forth their designs without incident."), I definitely appreciate you making this point.

                                      Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                      And I brought up Disneyland's record because you seem to be implying that Intamin should be admonished or their poor safety, while Disney's is equally poor, and no one seems to notice or care--at least, not to the extent you're bringing Intamin into it.
                                      I think when there's a thread that discusses some blatant and repeated oversight in Disney's design and engineering - they get all the admonishment they deserve. This thread is about an accident on an Intamin coaster - and given their history, I'm not sure why people are surprised that this is considered egregious.

                                      Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                      You get an opinion, I get an opinion. But Darkbeers has a presence that goes well beyond what he contributes here. And I don't recall you asking about my credentials, but I've been following the amusement industry for a long time myself. Now, does that make me better than you? Of course not. I don't know anything specific about your background, and you don't know anything about mine. That's what sucks about the internet, unfortunately.
                                      I didn't ask about your credentials because I didn't make the mistake of asserting (a lack of) knowledge based on the number of posts on a message board.

                                      Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                      In any case, I didn't mean to imply that your opinion is to be diminished, so if you took it that way, I apologize. You get to state what you believe, and I get to state what I believe.
                                      You apologize if I was offended? Gee, thanks. Seriously, I took it to mean, "This person has been here longer than you have, so we should take his posts as more accurate". If you apologize for implying that, I accept. Don't worry, not gonna take this stuff personally.


                                      Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
                                      All that said, a new point: one semi-common thread in these Intamin accidents is the cable failing on various rides. Should the cable manufacturer be brought into this, more than Intamin?
                                      Absolutely, assuming it is just one manufacturer, and that all maintenance procedures can be excluded. But seriously, the fault is likely divided amongst all parties in some unknown proportion - the park with maintenance, the manufacturer for poorly implementing the cable with their design (i.e., no fail-safe), and the cable manufacturer. Granted, normal wear and tear may not be the fault of the cable manufacturer, so it goes to the park and Intamin to some how account for this with maintenance, and the design of the system. It's a fair and important question.
                                      Last edited by sarki7; 09-19-2009, 08:57 PM.
                                      www.gregscoasterphotos.com <- Go there, it's good!

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                                        Lol....

                                        wow, all I can say. You ok over there Darkbeer? Everything will be ok, I promise... just breath and relax.

                                        :lmao:
                                        -Wes

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Re: Coaster Accident at Knotts Berry Farm

                                          Originally posted by Wesley815 View Post
                                          You ok over there Darkbeer?
                                          I am fine, the LA Galaxy just won 2-0 over Toronto, and has taken over control of the Western Division...

                                          And a great day of College Football, lots of great games to watch...

                                          Now, if there are folks to worry about, it would be the Trojans fans... What a big upset when Washington scored with just a few seconds left in the game.....

                                          Looks like their desire to try to win the National Championship have gone out the window, or in the theme of this thread, had its cable broke when they were trying to launch
                                          Check out my Theme Park Photos at http://darkbeer.smugmug.com

                                          Comment

                                          Get Away Today Footer

                                          Collapse
                                          Working...
                                          X