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  • Jack's Return
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    I happen to disagree with the people that saying it's a fight after fight after fight. 5 friends and I went to Six Flags yesterday (aka the 1st day of Fright Fest). The whole day I only saw 1 person line cutting (on Colossus) but the ride operaters quickly put them down and kicked them out of the line. I saw no fights what-so-ever. I agree I didn't see too many families but everything can't be made a family park like Disneyland. And every group of teens isn't just picking a fight either. We went and had a LOT of fun. We didn't start throwing popcorn or anything and most of the people I saw their were having a fun time with a small amount of horseplay.

    If Disney does buy Magic Mountain than I think I'd rather see it loosely owned by them. But I can see Disney having a possiblity at buying it. I saw 1 store in Magic Mountain (somewhere near the entrance by the water fountain and it was reasonably small but...) that was ONLY Disney merchandise.

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  • disneylover4ever
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Let's not forget Magic Mountain hasn't always been six flags. I understand what everyone is saying about it not being a family park. But there are a lot of families with older kids that still go and enjoy the park as a family. My husband, myself and 2 kids (ages 9 & 10) try to go about once a month. And I disagree that if some one was gonna drive down to SoCal they would just go to disneyland. We live in the central valley in between Bakersfield and Fresno. I LOVE Disneyland but truthfully we can only afford to go once every year or 2. For us it is a lot cheaper to go to SFMM than to Disneyland.

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  • Darkbeer
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    If I was a stockholder, I would be upset if my theme-park related company didn't make an inquiry into the offer. You could learn a lot just by "kicking the tires" and looking at the park's financials.

    I know that Cedar Fair did just that, even though most likely they won't make an offer due to the current debt load due to buying the Paramount parks. But if Six Flags doesn't get that many offers, and the price is right (a deal), you might just see Cedar Fair step in, as their is a lot of cost savings, especially in advertising and media buys in the Southern California area. One major problem, whoever buys Magic Mountain would probably need to spend a lot of cash on fixing up and doing maintenance, which would cause additional cash outlays.

    I think that Blackstone (Owns LEGOLAND, half of Universal Orlando and others) or Busch have the best cash flow for this purchase.

    If Disney buys it, I think there is a good chance they wouldn't make it a Disney park, at least for a few years, but run it as an independent park. But I don't see that happening. On the other hand, I am pretty sure that Disney did send a few people to look over the deal....

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  • MaryAnn in Wndrlnd
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Originally posted by Peabody View Post
    Exactly....it's nothing but someone's Fantasy turned rumor. It's so un-realistic from so many angles it can't be true. Much the same say one can dismiss other operators as well...
    And that would be why it would never happen. But think of it this way. With a theme park for sale in So. Cal, would Disney really not even ask about it?

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  • MaryAnn in Wndrlnd
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Originally posted by wrs28220 View Post
    I believe this to be incorrect. I remember when SFMM was first reported by the media to possibly be sold, that the online community came up with this idea. I don't think the Valley of Villiany was Disney driven. You might want to search the boards for the thread.
    A park manager told me this. I hold no claims to the authenticity. I was just reporting what I was told by a higher up at Six Flags.

    Originally posted by figment1986 View Post
    Even Busch Enteratignment Corp?
    The way it was told to me, yes. Pretty much everyone had inquired. That doesn't mean they are serious about it, like he said Disney had inquired, but showed no serious interest. As far as who else was serious versus passing glance, we didn't get into that. He just made sure to emphasize Disney as that would be a rumor that goes out of control real quick.

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  • Peabody
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Exactly....it's nothing but someone's Fantasy turned rumor. It's so un-realistic from so many angles it can't be true. Much the same say one can dismiss other operators as well...

    Leave a comment:


  • bubbubble4
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Originally posted by MaryAnn in Wndrlnd View Post
    Disney expressed slight interest into turning it into a Viliians Park geared for older audiences, teens and up, trying to cut into the Universal Studios market.
    I believe this to be incorrect. I remember when SFMM was first reported by the media to possibly be sold, that the online community came up with this idea. I don't think the Valley of Villiany was Disney driven. You might want to search the boards for the thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peabody
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    I have a REALLY hard time believing that Cedar Fair, Disney, Busch, etc. would even glance at the place let alone express interest. That's the big problem with trying to sell it....there's no major operator that would seem to either be in a financial position to buy or position where interest would be realistic.

    Leave a comment:


  • figment1986
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Originally posted by MaryAnn in Wndrlnd View Post
    All of the major theme park operators have expressed interest.
    Even Busch Enteratignment Corp?

    Leave a comment:


  • MaryAnn in Wndrlnd
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Well, MY source said (sorry, just had to capitilize ) that it would cost so much money to remove the coasters and level the land, that a developer would be scared off. (He said he doesn't know where the real estate thing came from.) Especially, since they just added Tatsu, which raises the value of the park for selling.

    He said it would likely be bought by a current theme park owner.

    And as far as what Magic Mountain is doing money wise, the way it was explained to me is this. Because Six Flags is in so much debt, they need to sell something to bring them out of the red. Based off performance, they could have sold a whole bunch of lesser perfoming parks, or one really great one. They are currently going with the "one really great one" plan.

    All of the major theme park operators have expressed interest.

    And here's a bombshell. (Now I'm warning you. The source said "This will never happen, but they did express a slight amount of interest. But it will never happen." So don't start any rumors or getting overly excited. 'Cause it such a slim chance in heck.

    Disney expressed slight interest into turning it into a Viliians Park geared for older audiences, teens and up, trying to cut into the Universal Studios market.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peabody
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    cellarhound....those figure I believe were last year. It's too early for solid 2006 figures (though I doubt they will change much). I agree with what you said, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • SingingAngel7242
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    my aunt lives 3 mintues from it and she said they aren't closing it. I think the people who live there would know. And as much as people buy houses out there like crazy, they honestly don't have the school space, because all those houses are family houses and the schools are already WAAAY over crowded.

    Leave a comment:


  • cellarhound
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Originally posted by Peabody View Post
    That's a common misunderstanding. It's actually neither of those things. Of all SF parks it's attendence last year was 5th or 6th overall....significantly less than the top performer. On top of that it has by far the longest operating season and average to low per-cap spending. Add that all in and you have one of the least profitable SF parks, quite low average daily attendence compared to other SFparks. I wish I had the figures near me....they were very enlightening!
    Ah, but was that before or after Shapiro?

    MM could use a few operational changes, and I think it suffers from a massive amout of sprall that had diluted attendance and increased park operating costs... It also has created a culture of adding thrill rides without managing it's sprall...

    Leave a comment:


  • figment1986
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Magic Mountain when operated correctly could be the best park they own... but they dont want to spend the time or money if they need to... they have a big debt and want to get out of it now...

    notice how they added entertaignment, then it ended in time for money to be moved to halloween... and cancling winter fests and such...

    Magic mountain needs money to make money.... money to clean up the park, money to maintain the attractions, to add family attractions to go with the ultimate thrills...(an example Busch Gardens Tampa is doing secretly)

    Leave a comment:


  • Peabody
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Originally posted by DoctorQ9 View Post
    First, it is an extremely popular and profitable park.
    That's a common misunderstanding. It's actually neither of those things. Of all SF parks it's attendence last year was 5th or 6th overall....significantly less than the top performer. On top of that it has by far the longest operating season and average to low per-cap spending. Add that all in and you have one of the least profitable SF parks, quite low average daily attendence compared to other SFparks. I wish I had the figures near me....they were very enlightening!

    Leave a comment:


  • DoctorQ9
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    My source within the Six Flags organization says this -- with the new (and massive) reorganization and change of leadership, SF is faced with a quandary regarding SFMM. First, it is an extremely popular and profitable park. Second, SF as a Corporation is staggeringly deep in debt. The land that SFMM sits on is considered prime SoCAL real estate, and so a bidding war could erupt between Developer interests and theme park operators -- all to the financial benefit of SF. The Corporation will go with whatever yields the most money to the SF coffers, and much will depend on how the City of Valencia handles the situation politically (Developers are extremely powerful in California)...

    Leave a comment:


  • Professortango
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Originally posted by sediment View Post
    I

    The professor's problems ...

    The professor....I like that...

    Leave a comment:


  • sediment
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    I think a bigger problem for SFMM in terms of crowd makeup is that Disneyland is close by, sucking up the families. CP doesn't have this problem. If you're a family within 150 miles or so of that park, you're probably going to go once a year or so.
    If you're a family within 150 miles of SoCal, you're going to DL.

    The professor's problems are exacerbated by the Santa Clarita local teenagers who DO buy annual passes (they're pretty cheap online at certain times of the year) and go there to establish a social location.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peabody
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    I understand that, but Cedar Point, in terms of ride collection is not dissimilar to Magic Mountain. But, they draw a primarily family crowd. The main cause of the make up of attendees at SFMM is not because of a large intense coaster collection. Is it a factor? Sure. But CP is enough to show that it need not be that way. Operations across the spectrum, marketing, guest satisfaction, etc. are all MAJOR players. SFMM is in the bottom of the barrell in that regard. I've been lucky enough to visit some 80+ different parks and SFMM is right at the bottom for me. Great coasters, but the horrible state of the place makes it almost impossible for me to enjoy it.
    Last edited by Peabody; 10-01-2006, 06:37 PM.

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  • Professortango
    replied
    Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain: Fate?

    Originally posted by Peabody View Post
    That's not the main cause of the problems. Cedar Point has as large and intense of a coaster collection as SFMM and they have a mainly family crowd. Their main problems are in slightly different areas.
    (Though I agree that they should have been investing in nothing but coasters!)
    Having a park devoted to nothing but coasters is death for family attendance. Say you have a family of four. Dad likes the coasters, the older sibling does as well. Mom doesn't care for them all that much but is used to taking one for the family. However the younger sibling is frightened of big coasters and is too big for Bugs Bunny World. Now the family can drag along the younger sibling, pay admission, and have mom do tantrum control all day, or they can choose a different venue such as Knotts, Universal, or Disneyland Resort.

    With adolescents there is little issue. Groups of friends invite people, if people don't want to go, they invite others. They go on their own and ride. So now we know that the park naturally is more convienent for adolescent audiences.

    Now, teens often don't have much money, so they bring their coke can for cheap admission, and maybe buy a burger or something cheap in the park. Few hats and trinkets are sold. Very few anual passes. And even fewer expensive dinners.

    So now that the main audience is without adult supervision and in a peer atmosphere, they tend to try and get away with things. Shoplifting. Line cutting. Then fights break out when line cutters are confronted. You also have a large amount of guys trying to pick up on girls. More fights ensue.

    To help prevent such events the security guards become less tolerant and start to profile the guests. Civil liberties are in question then the park is sued.

    I worked for a law firm here in southern california and we had an entire storage locker dedicated to law suits against Magic Mountain for such issues. Beefing up security and fighting law suits is not cheap, especially when the target audience spends little money there in the first place.

    Leave a comment:

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