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  • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

    Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
    I don't understand the argument that the animals must be hungry to perform or that performing for food is bad. I don't know of any animals that perform without reward and that reward is usually in the form of a treat. It could be a pat on the head, a verbal compliment, or a ringing bell, but it's often a food treat. For a killer whale that eats 500 pounds of food a day, I can't imagine that a handful of fish is any more than a treat to a huge killer whale. They can't possibly be performing for food in a hungry sense when that food reward is just a tiny fraction of what they need to eat in a day.
    A dolphin or orca must be hungry in order to get them to perform on command and on schedule. Why else would they do exactly what you want when you want? And no, the reward for a dolphin or orca is not a pat on the head or a verbal compliment. It is food. It's not a "treat". It is part of their daily ration. And captive orcas do not get 500 pounds of food each day. At the Miami Seaquarium, our orcas received about 180 pounds a day. (If you fed them 500 pounds each day, you'd have fat whales and no show.)

    Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
    I also don't understand what is wrong with animals performing for our entertainment. Entertainment is a human need like food and clothing. Entertainment is beneficial for families and society. Animals are used for food and clothing, and they have been used for entertainment for centuries. In modern society, animals are used for equestrian shows, pet tricks, rodeos, horse racing, circuses, running of the bulls, trained bird demonstrations, etc.
    Comparing dolphins and orcas to horses, dogs and other animals is unfair and highly inaccurate. They are much more intelligent and much more emotional with more intense feelings. It is inhumane and morally wrong to force them to perform for food several times a day, every day. (Very good arguments have been made elsewhere regarding the morality of rodeos, the running of the bulls and other examples of animal exploitation.)

    Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
    Some people advocate that zoos do not have trained animals performing tricks, and that is how SeaWorld should handle it's dolphins and whales, but that is not true. Many zoo animals are trained behaviors that make it possible to safely care for them, handle them, and administer veterinary care. Often it eliminates the need for risky sedation. The training methods are the same.
    The few limited behaviors that zoo animals learn are not required to be performed on schedule several times each day for their daily food ration. And their behaviors are not accompanied by loud music and a cheering audience.

    Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
    Some people advocate that zoos provide more naturalistic enclosures for animals, but that is an illusion to make us feel better. Clearly, zoos have improved conditions and enlarged enclosures in recent decades, but many zoo enclosures look naturalistic from the viewer's perspective, while they are just bare boxes with a few decorations (trees, rocks, etc.) from the animal's perspective. More importantly, most animals are moved to backstage areas for nights and winters. These backstage areas are look like jail cells compared to the "on stage" habitats. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying the on stage habitats are somewhat of an illusion to make us feel better about what we're seeing as much as they are a larger habitat for part of the animal's day or for the warmer season.
    You are mostly correct. However the orcas' and dolphins' living environments are not just unrealistic, they are bad for the animals. Their water has been heavily treated with chemicals. The depths of the tanks are extremely shallow for ocean mammals (which may be one reason why the orcas' dorsals fins droop). The areas they can roam are very small. There is nothing good about these tiny tanks.

    Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
    I'm sure if it wasn't for the expense and practicality of expanding the pools at SeaWorld, the whales would receive larger habitats just like other animals in zoos everywhere, even if just to make us feel better as visitors.
    As long as people don't complain, Sea World has no reason to improve the living conditions for their cetaceans. Obviously they have no interest in spending money on new tanks if they don't have to.
    Last edited by evergreen; 01-19-2014, 06:05 PM.

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    • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

      They will not overeat if they are full. That the reward is food is telling. I'm sure they'd use verbal praise as the sole reward, if they could. It would certainly be cheaper.

      Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
      I also don't understand what is wrong with animals performing for our entertainment.
      Then that is where you and I fundamentally disagree. No matter how hard I could try to convince you that orcas and dolphins are highly intelligent and self-aware, you will fail to sympathize with animals that must understand they are and will always be captive. You will continue to believe that they are here for your amusement, to be used and manipulated as you please. I would be embarrassed to admit as such, but to each his own. Or am I selling you short?

      Entertainment is a luxury, and there are plenty of other choices. I will choose other options besides cetacean performances.
      Check out the MICECHAT Duffy Forum
      :love:Bringing the Love since January 10, 2011:love:

      Comment


      • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

        Originally posted by The First Star View Post
        They will not overeat if they are full. That the reward is food is telling. I'm sure they'd use verbal praise as the sole reward, if they could. It would certainly be cheaper.

        Then that is where you and I fundamentally disagree. No matter how hard I could try to convince you that orcas and dolphins are highly intelligent and self-aware, you will fail to sympathize with animals that must understand they are and will always be captive. You will continue to believe that they are here for your amusement, to be used and manipulated as you please. I would be embarrassed to admit as such, but to each his own. Or am I selling you short?

        Entertainment is a luxury, and there are plenty of other choices. I will choose other options besides cetacean performances.
        First Star, I enoy your posts. They are always thoughtful and intelligent. And you often explain things from a scientific viewpoint with facts, data and credible sources. So thank you.
        Last edited by evergreen; 01-19-2014, 06:25 PM.

        Comment


        • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

          baby albino trapped on friday in the cove:



          Others being rounded up in the nets:



          the dolphins that arent killed are shipped around marine parks around the world:
          [


          dolphin being captured - nose all bloody in the process:



          albino dolphin in the taiji whale museum - he is swimming very close to another captive - which leads people to worry that he blind and deaf - also he nose is bloody due to the selection process:



          the only way this will ever stop is when people stop visiting marine parks and stop paying to swim with a captive dolphin.

          update - 51 dolphins have been removed from the cove and taken to captivity - out of those 51 - i wonder how many will survive the transportation of being in those trucks.

          this is the third night they have been trapped - with no rest or food in the cove.
          Last edited by heatisonthestreet; 01-20-2014, 02:15 AM.

          Comment


          • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

            footage of the capture - which i cant watch:

            Dolphins rounded up in annual Japanese hunt – video report | World news | theguardian.com

            Comment


            • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

              Again, wonderful images, and yes, the horrors at the cove in Taiji are truly awful- but what exactly does this have to do with SeaWorld? Wild collection at SeaWorld hasn't happened in over 20 years, and the trainers in The Cove who were in the video were all Asian, presumably looking for animals for Asian parks and dolphin programs.
              Amnesia used to be my favourite word, but I forgot it.

              Comment


              • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
                I don't understand the argument that the animals must be hungry to perform or that performing for food is bad. I don't know of any animals that perform without reward and that reward is usually in the form of a treat. It could be a pat on the head, a verbal compliment, or a ringing bell, but it's often a food treat. For a killer whale that eats 500 pounds of food a day, I can't imagine that a handful of fish is any more than a treat to a huge killer whale. They can't possibly be performing for food in a hungry sense when that food reward is just a tiny fraction of what they need to eat in a day.

                I also don't understand what is wrong with animals performing for our entertainment. Entertainment is a human need like food and clothing. Entertainment is beneficial for families and society. Animals are used for food and clothing, and they have been used for entertainment for centuries. In modern society, animals are used for equestrian shows, pet tricks, rodeos, horse racing, circuses, running of the bulls, trained bird demonstrations, etc. One could even argue that permitted hunting is a form of entertainment or sport. Whether the animals (or in the case of hunting, the wild population) are cared for properly is important, and that should be regulated, monitored, etc.

                Some people advocate that zoos do not have trained animals performing tricks, and that is how SeaWorld should handle it's dolphins and whales, but that is not true. Many zoo animals are trained behaviors that make it possible to safely care for them, handle them, and administer veterinary care. Often it eliminates the need for risky sedation. The training methods are the same.

                Some people advocate that zoos provide more naturalistic enclosures for animals, but that is an illusion to make us feel better. Clearly, zoos have improved conditions and enlarged enclosures in recent decades, but many zoo enclosures look naturalistic from the viewer's perspective, while they are just bare boxes with a few decorations (trees, rocks, etc.) from the animal's perspective. More importantly, most animals are moved to backstage areas for nights and winters. These backstage areas are look like jail cells compared to the "on stage" habitats. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying the on stage habitats are somewhat of an illusion to make us feel better about what we're seeing as much as they are a larger habitat for part of the animal's day or for the warmer season.

                I'm sure if it wasn't for the expense and practicality of expanding the pools at SeaWorld, the whales would receive larger habitats just like other animals in zoos everywhere, even if just to make us feel better as visitors.
                Thank you for making that point! I was thinking the same thing. There is no way that the small amount of "reward fish" that the whales or dolphins receive during a show would even count as a meal. They are just rewards. Just like giving your dog a treat. With the amount of food that a whale needs per day, there is no way they are keeping them hungry.

                Comment


                • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                  Originally posted by evergreen View Post
                  A dolphin or orca must be hungry in order to get them to perform on command and on schedule. Why else would they do exactly what you want when you want? And no, the reward for a dolphin or orca is not a pat on the head or a verbal compliment. It is food. It's not a "treat". It is part of their daily ration. And captive orcas do not get 500 pounds of food each day. At the Miami Seaquarium, our orcas received about 180 pounds a day. (If you fed them 500 pounds each day, you'd have fat whales and no show.)



                  Comparing dolphins and orcas to horses, dogs and other animals is unfair and highly inaccurate. They are much more intelligent and much more emotional with more intense feelings. It is inhumane and morally wrong to force them to perform for food several times a day, every day. (Very good arguments have been made elsewhere regarding the morality of rodeos, the running of the bulls and other examples of animal exploitation.)



                  The few limited behaviors that zoo animals learn are not required to be performed on schedule several times each day for their daily food ration. And their behaviors are not accompanied by loud music and a cheering audience.



                  You are mostly correct. However the orcas' and dolphins' living environments are not just unrealistic, they are bad for the animals. Their water has been heavily treated with chemicals. The depths of the tanks are extremely shallow for ocean mammals (which may be one reason why the orcas' dorsals fins droop). The areas they can roam are very small. There is nothing good about these tiny tanks.



                  As long as people don't complain, Sea World has no reason to improve the living conditions for their cetaceans. Obviously they have no interest in spending money on new tanks if they don't have to.
                  I have previously stated that I appreciate your passion for these animals. You talk about the conditions of SeaWorld as if you have first hand knowledge about it. But, as you have stated, you never worked there; you were at a completely different park 40 years ago. So you are stating opinions based on Blackfish, not actual evidence. That is the point I have been trying to make is that the movie is the agenda of the four ex-trainers and made in such a way as to be as detrimental to Seaworld as possible. I would like proof, not just stated opinions to the matter. And I realize that the group of "anti-Seaworld" people is large and that they all have opinions of how horrific it is for these animals, but again, they are not presenting proof.

                  Originally posted by The First Star View Post
                  They will not overeat if they are full. That the reward is food is telling. I'm sure they'd use verbal praise as the sole reward, if they could. It would certainly be cheaper.



                  Then that is where you and I fundamentally disagree. No matter how hard I could try to convince you that orcas and dolphins are highly intelligent and self-aware, you will fail to sympathize with animals that must understand they are and will always be captive. You will continue to believe that they are here for your amusement, to be used and manipulated as you please. I would be embarrassed to admit as such, but to each his own. Or am I selling you short?

                  Entertainment is a luxury, and there are plenty of other choices. I will choose other options besides cetacean performances.
                  They are definitely intelligent. I don't think anyone is arguing that.

                  Comment


                  • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                    Just hearing that Taiji whale museum don't want the baby albino dolphin as she is blind and deaf.

                    They only just realised? The dolphins activists could have told them that.

                    That explains why she has been swimming so close to the captive dolphin in the tank and probably wondering where her dead mother is.

                    Harrowing.

                    Comment


                    • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                      Originally posted by Exprmnt626 View Post
                      Again, wonderful images, and yes, the horrors at the cove in Taiji are truly awful- but what exactly does this have to do with SeaWorld? Wild collection at SeaWorld hasn't happened in over 20 years, and the trainers in The Cove who were in the video were all Asian, presumably looking for animals for Asian parks and dolphin programs.
                      Those belugas that were captured last year are tied to Seaworld.

                      And what about Morgan the killer whale who was rescued '4 years ago' off of Norwegian waters and was promised to be rehabbed ASAP and never put on display.

                      She is on display at loro parque in Tenerife and guess who owns that?

                      There is a courtcase next month to see if they will release her. She has been in captivity for four years so there is a good chance that she could be seapenned successfully.

                      But she new blood so Seaworld may fight tooth and nail to keep her so they can use her as a baby machine.
                      Last edited by heatisonthestreet; 01-20-2014, 11:27 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                        Originally posted by The First Star View Post
                        They will not overeat if they are full. That the reward is food is telling. I'm sure they'd use verbal praise as the sole reward, if they could. It would certainly be cheaper.



                        Then that is where you and I fundamentally disagree. No matter how hard I could try to convince you that orcas and dolphins are highly intelligent and self-aware, you will fail to sympathize with animals that must understand they are and will always be captive. You will continue to believe that they are here for your amusement, to be used and manipulated as you please. I would be embarrassed to admit as such, but to each his own. Or am I selling you short?

                        Entertainment is a luxury, and there are plenty of other choices. I will choose other options besides cetacean performances.
                        You continue to make it sound bad that the animals can't perform without food (or what I would call a treat/reward). I don't think it's bad because the vast majority of animal performance use food as a reward. I have seen nuts for bears, seeds for birds, bits of meat for tigers, treats for dogs and cats, so one can surmise that zoos use bits of food to train animals of all sorts for husbandry behaviors.

                        My point about accepting animals for entertainment purposes is that it's a poor justification of why orcas shouldn't be kept in captivity. Even if orcas adapt poorly to captivity, animals in general are widely accepted in many forms of entertainment. A few examples beyond ordinary pets are equestrian shows, horse races, rodeos, big cats, birds, elephanats (not just for circuses but for work and show in Asia), as well as animals trained for Hollywood movies and animals hunted for sport [which can't be the fate the animal prefers (to use the anthropomorphic view anti-SeaWorld folks like to present) even if wildlife managers can justify it as population and disease control]. One could argue that zoos in general are primarily for entertainment, a day out with the family, and only offer education as a beneficial side affect. So, no, I'm not embarrassed to say that animals can be used for entertainment and that it fulfills a social need. That general sentiment doesn't conflict with whether orcas are well suited to captivity or training.
                        Last edited by gardener14; 01-20-2014, 12:43 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                          Regarding the albino dolphin. I thought albino animals were almost certain to have extremely poor vision. That's no surprise. Because of that and other reasons often relating to their inability to camouflage, albino animals usually don't survive in the wild. One could argue that it's the way of life in the wild and the natural fate of albinoism, so capturing it (under kinder circumstances anyway) could in a sense be rescuing it.

                          Comment


                          • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                            This explains Seaworld/business relationship with the fisherman and aquariums of Japan.

                            SeaWorld & co, WAZA and IMATA and Their Collaboration with the Dolphin Slaughter in Japan - Sea Shepherd Conservation Society

                            Brad Andrews is the guy who buys Seaworld stock.

                            Comment


                            • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                              Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
                              Regarding the albino dolphin. I thought albino animals were almost certain to have extremely poor vision. That's no surprise. Because of that and other reasons often relating to their inability to camouflage, albino animals usually don't survive in the wild. One could argue that it's the way of life in the wild and the natural fate of albinoism, so capturing it (under kinder circumstances anyway) could in a sense be rescuing it.
                              It's Mum is dead now and now the museum don't want it.

                              Comment


                              • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                                Originally posted by coopercaseycody View Post
                                Thank you for making that point! I was thinking the same thing. There is no way that the small amount of "reward fish" that the whales or dolphins receive during a show would even count as a meal. They are just rewards. Just like giving your dog a treat. With the amount of food that a whale needs per day, there is no way they are keeping them hungry.
                                You are 100% wrong. I've explained it to you, yet you say I can't possibly be right because I worked with animals 40 years ago, as if training animals is very different now. The food they receive is not a "treat." It is part of their daily food ration. Why would they perform for a "treat"? Do you think they are that stupid? They are not household pets. They are wild animals.

                                FACT: The orcas and dolphins must be hungry in order to get them to perform on schedule and on command. If you can prove otherwise, I will gladly donate $1,000 to your favority charity.
                                Last edited by evergreen; 01-20-2014, 02:08 PM.

                                Comment


                                • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                                  Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
                                  You continue to make it sound bad that the animals can't perform without food (or what I would call a treat/reward). I don't think it's bad because the vast majority of animal performance use food as a reward. I have seen nuts for bears, seeds for birds, bits of meat for tigers, treats for dogs and cats, so one can surmise that zoos use bits of food to train animals of all sorts for husbandry behaviors.
                                  Put yourself in their place. Imagine you live in a small room that you can never leave. A person approaches you holding your food. He gives you commands that require you to perform silly movements - waving your arms, jumping, spinning, turning... For each behavior you do correctly, you get part of your daily ration of food. Not a "treat" but part of your daily food ration. If you don't do a behavior correctly, you get nothing. Now imagine doing that several times a day. Now imagine doing that for the rest of your life.

                                  Comment


                                  • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                                    Originally posted by evergreen View Post
                                    You are 100% wrong. I've explained it to you, yet you say I can't possibly be right because I worked with animals 40 years ago, as if training animals is very different now. The food they receive is not a "treat." It is part of their daily food ration. Why would they perform for a "treat"? Do you think they are that stupid? Do you honestly think they are like dogs?

                                    FACT: The orcas and dolphins must be hungry in order to get them to perform on schedule and on command. If you can prove otherwise, I will gladly donate $1,000 to your favority charity.



                                    This post comes across as shouting and frustrated.

                                    I think the problem with your explanations is that it seems counter to everything we know and see about other animals that are trained. Food rewards are routinely used in most animal training whether for show or husbandry, not just pets but wild animals in captivity such as bears, tigers, elephants, sea lions, dolphins, birds, etc. We, the general public, have never before been led to believe that it is anything more than a treat for doing a behavior correctly and in all cases it appears to be a small amount of food compared to their overall diet. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I just haven't heard a good explanations other than you shouting loudly that we must believe you because you say so.

                                    If not just a treat, it makes sense that the food used during training is part of their daily ration or else they would be overfed. Are you telling me that if they don't do the performance, they won't get their allotted food during the day? Even if they cooperatively perform and get fed in the process, is that bad? Isn't it providing stimulation and exercise that they wouldn't get if they just swam around in a large enclosure like a zoo animal on display? Don't modern zoos provide stimulation and play for their animals even if it's within their display habitat and not in a formal show setting?
                                    Last edited by gardener14; 01-20-2014, 01:38 PM.

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                                    • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                                      Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
                                      This post comes across as shouting and frustrated.

                                      I think the problem with your explanations is that it seems counter to everything we know and see about other animals that are trained. Food rewards are routinely used in most animal training whether for show or husbandry, not just pets but wild animals in captivity such as bears, tigers, elephants, sea lions, dolphins, birds, etc. We, the general public, have never before been led to believe that it is anything more than a treat for doing a behavior correctly and in all cases it appears to be a small amount of food compared to their overall diet. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I just haven't heard a good explanations other than you shouting loudly that we must believe you because you say so.?
                                      Yes, I am frustrated. Sorry. I stated certain facts and I hoped the discussion would go from there. Instead, I find myself repeating the basic facts. However, when I put myself in your shoes, I realize that this information is new and, perhaps, even startling. So again, I apologize.

                                      The "hunger" method I described applies to many intelligent animals that must perform on schedule and on command. That includes, orcas, dolphins and sea lions. They must be hungry in order to guarantee a performance. That's one reason why their food intake is so carefully managed.

                                      Some animals, such as lions, tigers and elephants are trained by fear and intimidation. (This has been tried with dolphins and orcas but doesn't work.) If you ever saw a video of how circus elephants are trained, your heart would break. Here is one of the milder videos:


                                      Originally posted by gardener14 View Post
                                      If not just a treat, it makes sense that the food used during training is part of their daily ration or else they would be overfed. Are you telling me that if they don't do the performance, they won't get their allotted food during the day? Even if they cooperatively perform and get fed in the process, is that bad? Isn't it providing stimulation and exercise that they wouldn't get if they just swam around in a large enclosure like a zoo animal on display? Don't modern zoos provide stimulation and play for their animals even if it's within their display habitat and not in a formal show setting?
                                      Good questions. If they don't perform they still get fed but just enough to keep them alive and healthy. When an animal refuses to perform at all, it is a cause for concern. The first thing the trainers usually do is cut back on their rations to make sure the animal is hungry the next day. If the animal still won't perform the next day after his rations were cut back, then other causes are looked into such as illness.

                                      What's wrong with this situation is simply that the animals must perform. They have no choice. The trainers don't ask the animal: "Will you please jump for the 5,000 paying guests who are anxiously waiting to see you jump? Please? I'll give you a treat if you do. Pretty please?"

                                      When you have thousands of paying guests, your show better come off as planned or the front office will come down on you. So to guarantee a show, your animals better be hungry or you are screwed. How else can you guarantee a show?

                                      The problem with this is that the animals have no choice in the matter. They must perform to saitify their hunger. It is, in fact, a type of slavery.
                                      Last edited by evergreen; 01-20-2014, 02:05 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                                        That video regarding Ringling is just as slanted and misleading by mismatching biased narration with out of context pictures and videos as Blackfish is. The photos and videos obtained are of something, but anyone can see through the narration and it's bias. Do you really think the handlers are smiling because they enjoy tearing apart baby elephants and mothers? Come on! That's just one of many blatant examples. Here's another perspective. http://sarasotamagazine.com/blog/201...ntertainments/

                                        Back on topic, for a different kind of bias, but in the interest of listening to all sides, here is SeaWorld's newest response to Blackfish. Their own website dedicated to speaking up for themselves.
                                        Truth About Blackfish | SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment

                                        Within this website is this Q&A
                                        How are SeaWorld animals trained?
                                        The training process at SeaWorld is a critical part of our animal welfare program. It is based on the principles of positive reinforcement. No animal is ever punished as part of this process. If an animal chooses not to participate, it doesn’t and it experiences no consequences. Training is an enriching and stimulating process for the animals and contributes to their health. In addition to mental stimulation, training permits SeaWorld zoological professionals to provide better care. Animals are trained to submit to blood tests, provide urine samples, blowhole cultures, and even provide milk for analysis. Close interaction between our staff and animals is critical to assuring the animals’ health and well-being.
                                        The essence of animal training is to vary reinforcement to keep animals engaged. We use a variety of reinforcements in the training process; some animals prefer a massage or toy instead of food. Each animal and each day is different. No animal’s diet is dependent upon the food it receives in shows. An animal could choose not to participate in any shows and will still receive the same quantity of food.
                                        Last edited by gardener14; 01-20-2014, 02:29 PM.

                                        Comment


                                        • Re: See "Blackfish" before going to SeaWorld

                                          Originally posted by heatisonthestreet View Post
                                          Those belugas that were captured last year are tied to Seaworld.

                                          And what about Morgan the killer whale who was rescued '4 years ago' off of Norwegian waters and was promised to be rehabbed ASAP and never put on display.

                                          She is on display at loro parque in Tenerife and guess who owns that?

                                          There is a courtcase next month to see if they will release her. She has been in captivity for four years so there is a good chance that she could be seapenned successfully.

                                          But she new blood so Seaworld may fight tooth and nail to keep her so they can use her as a baby machine.
                                          SeaWorld does not own Loro Parque, and never has. Don't lie to try to make your story make sense.

                                          Morgan the orca does not have any association to SeaWorld, either.

                                          How exactly are the belugas tied to SeaWorld?
                                          Amnesia used to be my favourite word, but I forgot it.

                                          Comment

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