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Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

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  • CoasterMatt
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    Cedar Fair just bought about $20 million worth of flatrides, I guess they've got no idea what they're doing, cuz nobody rides those anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • JesterMn
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    Saw this article and couldn't resist posting. It discusses how well Luna Park (at Coney Island) is doing this summer. Despite some naysayers earlier in this thread.

    Coney Island attractions to stay open through Halloween - NYPOST.com

    Good for Luna Park and their flat rides!

    Leave a comment:


  • The Disneylander
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    I've heard nothing but good things about Monster Mansion (well, actually I would guess it's about 90% ) and would love to see something like that here. Not a clone per se, although that would still be better than nothing, but maybe something that actually fits the theme of one of the lands? Pretty please?

    Leave a comment:


  • JesterMn
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    ^I like that ride too. Just returned from SFOG, and gotta say, loved their Monster Mansion even more!

    Leave a comment:


  • sir clinksalot
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    Originally posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    YouTube - Yosemite Sam and the Gold River Adventure Dark Ride
    ^A ride like this (maybe add one drop) would be great at MM.
    That's a fun little ride.

    Leave a comment:


  • erdons
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    Originally posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    YouTube - Yosemite Sam and the Gold River Adventure Dark Ride
    ^A ride like this (maybe add one drop) would be great at MM.
    Wow, a ride like that would be awesome at Magic Mountain!!

    Leave a comment:


  • JerrodDRagon
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44BYLcqSjn8]YouTube - Yosemite Sam and the Gold River Adventure Dark Ride[/ame]
    ^A ride like this (maybe add one drop) would be great at MM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Freakazoid112
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    To back up JesterMn's point, I am 17 and I think flat rides are cool. At MM or Knott's it's more of a "in-between" thrill, if you will like Jester said, and they're great when you want to ride something fairly quickly without waiting in a two-hour line. At MM I like to ride Tatsu, X2, or Goliath or whatever, and on the way to another coaster I see Grinder Gearworks or Scrambler and think "Hey that looks fun. I'd like to ride that now before going in line for Batman."

    Another thing is Cedar Point. The MaXair is my third favorite ride there with Millennium and Dragster being my first and second favorites. At Knott's I love La Revolution! It is sooooo fun! Apparently, a lot of people in the same gondola with me would agree so.

    IndyJack, if you really think nobody rides flat rides anymore, then howcome they have such long lines at the Knotts, Ceder Point, Magic Mountain, or at the LA or OC County Fair? I think its unfair to say Castle park isn't doing well because it's more of a park for locals or for local teens to hang out at during the weekends. People don't fly all the way out to the UK to go to Castle Park or drive from LA all the freaking way to Riverside to see CP.

    Leave a comment:


  • JesterMn
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    This is getting riduclous. I'm arguing with a brick wall here, and it's getting tedious. I'll make my last points and move on.

    So you work in the "global tourism industry". I fail to see how this makes you a research and marketing expert in the area of flat rides. Unless you can cough up more specifics as to why your job relates to the financial reports of the state of flat ride companies, let's move on.

    You've been to Lula park once (and a few weeks ago, I may add), and saw it was not crowded. Again, big deal. One personal viewing does not create a financial report for the park as a whole. There could have been many other factors involved as to why the park was not busy. Was it the middle of a weekday? Were all the rides open? (Admittedly, at their "grand opening", barely half their rides were ready to go, which caused a bit of public frustration.)

    And again, for the third time, short lines does not mean a ride is unpopular. It's funny how you do not address my arguments about all other rides at various parks that fail to have short lines, as well as all the pics that sir clinksalot posted. Virtually any ride, at any given moment, will not have a line at some point.

    For example, I was just at Knott's Berry Farm yesterday. Montezuma's Revenge had no line. To be honest, it rarely does. Should we get ride of it? Yet their flat rides, La Revolucion and Wipeout, both had lines at least 2 or 3 cycles long. In fact, La Revolucion frequently has a line--I can't remember a time when it doesn't.

    As far as the argument that a roller coaster is better because it goes different places in unpredictable paths... first off, once you've been on a roller coaster multiple times, it gets very predictable. Even X2 for me, at this point, is predictable and lost some of it's allure (although it is very impressive to the first time rider). The fact it "goes different places" doesn't mean much if it's going to the SAME place every time. However, I can state that my rides on a Tilt A Whirl, Zipper, Teacup, Chaos, Tango, Space Roller, Rock O' Plane, Flic Flac, Break Dance, Heartbreaker, Octopus/Polyp, etc., are different every time.

    When I ask you to name suggestions of what else can be put in small spaces that are still thrilling, your response was "Sorry, I'm not at liberty to say." Really? What wonderous marvel of technology are you, and you alone, privy to? Again, unless you can name it, there's no point in even bringing this up.

    And if you continually state that "no one's ever in line for flat rides" and "the flat ride manufactures will be bankrupt", then yes, you are implying no one likes flat rides. That's how economics work, right? Supply and demand? Or as you're putting it, lack of demand will lead to lack of supply?

    I think it's very narrow minded that you state PK as failing because it had flat rides. It did have a roller coaster, you know. And is lower Castle Park attendance (which, as a point, I don't know if it's true in the first place--do you have any financial records to back this point up?) singularly due to flat rides? They have not one, but two roller coasters there. With the automatic success of roller coasters that you state, shouldn't Castle Park be thriving? What else are they expected to do? I guess they need to be approaching you about your ideas, what are they waiting for?

    Not only that, but I'm noticing that your also stating their demise in the next few decades. Decades. You're trying to predict the future in decades. If you really can project that far into the future, then I suggest you give up your regular job and go into financial investments.

    Since you asked, I'm 39. Does that make me an older guy? Maybe. Not sure what that has to do with anything... typically, that puts me in the bracket of not liking flat rides (aren't most riders teen and college age).

    Now, there are some flaws in my logic, I will admit. My statements are opinions, not facts. Just as yours are. I'm also seeing the writing on the wall, and can see this will go no where fast. So I'll get off this treadmill now and move on... I'm taking a vacation tomorrow to SFOG and Dollywood where I get to ride some killer coasters... AND flat rides!

    Leave a comment:


  • indianajack
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
    Fair enough, each to their own opinion. Please share your memo with Huss, Chance, Zamperla, KMG, Zierer, Mondial, Fabbri, S&S, Gerstlauer, Intamin, and every single traveling carnival and fair across the country, not to mention all the smaller flat ride manufacturers (Eli, Wisdom, etc.). It's only fair to let these competing business know that they will be bankrupt.
    They already know the writing is on the wall. As someone who works in the global tourism industry, it's no secret that flat rides are on the way out. I assume you're an older guy, right?

    Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
    It's a particular shame that Zamperla just single-handedly revitalized the Coney Island area in New York. Clearly, all those people stopping by and buying tickets have been hallucinated; it's a ghost town there.
    Funny you should mention Luna Park. I was just there a couple of weeks ago and it was dead on a weekend. It is not drawing crowds, and it's primarily because they only have boring flat rides that are the same as everyplace else. The curiosity factor was there to draw in some crowds, and once they saw it was the same old, same old as before but simply cleaner and newer, people have stopped showing up. The powers that be in NYC were told this would happen by going the Zamperla route but they didn't listen and wanted to do the park on the cheap...

    Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
    I will concede that no one is visiting DCA primarily to ride anything in Flick's Fun Fair. But even you admitted that many flat rides make nice decoration and add to the kinetic energy of the park. That's a large aspect of their job.
    Those are pretty expensive decorations then. Flat rides are filler, and without any prime meat, a park will not draw many repeat visitors.

    Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
    As for immersive experiences, I don't know what's more immersive than having your entire body spun around in multiple directions at once. And for the record, what's so immersive about a typical roller coaster, anyway?
    A good roller coaster goes different places in unpredictable paths. A flat ride often spins in a circle until barfing ensues.

    Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
    You state there are better ways to utilize attractions in smaller spaces, but you fail to mention what they'd be. Some specifics would be nice. And if you say 3 or 4D motion simulators, please, spare me.... that is something I wish would die out. Nowadays, I can find those at the local mall. Big whoop. I can't find swinging pirate ship at the mall.
    There are other ideas besides motion simulators, of which I'm not much of a fan either. Sorry, I'm not at liberty to discuss them publicly. Buccaneer style rides are precisely the kind of flat rides that surveys show the public is sick to death of... particularly young people.

    Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
    It's fine if you, personally, don't care for flat rides. But it's not fair to extrapolate from that, that no one likes flat rides,
    Please don't straw man me. I didn't say no one likes flat rides. They do still have some popularity particularly with the boomer crowd that remembers them fondly as teenagers. But market research shows that less and less of the Gen X and Y crowd wants or enjoys them. Take a look at Pharoah's Kingdom or Castle Park in IE, they're dying because they're primarily flats. PK would have died permanently if it hadn't been for their wild late night dance parties (which have been discontinued by the surrounding community in conjunction with law enforcement). Whether some of you wish to face it or not, flat rides will die out for the most part in the next couple decades (we won't see many news ones getting ordered, and the current glut on the market goes through their life cycles). The places that are buying them in droves in Asia and Europe are seeing attendance and repeat ridership decrease with these types of rides as their initial costs and maintenance continues to rise. And them's the economics of the business...

    Leave a comment:


  • JesterMn
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    ^Thank you, I was about to mention Oktoberfest! :lol:

    Leave a comment:


  • CoasterMatt
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    One of the big reasons that many people prefer Cedar Point to Six Flags Magic Mountain is the DIVERSITY of flatrides. A good mix of classics and modern.

    I suppose all of Germany must have missed the "flatrides are on their way out" memo- do you know what the German fair circuit is like?

    Leave a comment:


  • sir clinksalot
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    JesterMn makes some good points ... just look at some of the "lines" I had to deal with on my visits to SFMM this year:

    X2


    Deja Vu


    Goliath


    Gold Rusher


    Revolution


    In fact, even on WCB (a Saturday in MARCH) our longest wait of the day was for the Log Jammer. Batman had about a 5-10 minute wait all day.

    Even Terminator had about a 5 minute wait last time I was at the park. So I guess those should all be torn down.

    The only coaster that had a line on our last SFMM was Tatsu ... would be sad if that was the only coaster in the park.

    Leave a comment:


  • JesterMn
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    Fair enough, each to their own opinion. Please share your memo with Huss, Chance, Zamperla, KMG, Zierer, Mondial, Fabbri, S&S, Gerstlauer, Intamin, and every single traveling carnival and fair across the country, not to mention all the smaller flat ride manufacturers (Eli, Wisdom, etc.). It's only fair to let these competing business know that they will be bankrupt.

    It's a particular shame that Zamperla just single-handedly revitalized the Coney Island area in New York. Clearly, all those people stopping by and buying tickets have been hallucinated; it's a ghost town there.

    I will concede that no one is visiting DCA primarily to ride anything in Flick's Fun Fair. But even you admitted that many flat rides make nice decoration and add to the kinetic energy of the park. That's a large aspect of their job.

    As for immersive experiences, I don't know what's more immersive than having your entire body spun around in multiple directions at once. And for the record, what's so immersive about a typical roller coaster, anyway?

    You state there are better ways to utilize attractions in smaller spaces, but you fail to mention what they'd be. Some specifics would be nice. And if you say 3 or 4D motion simulators, please, spare me.... that is something I wish would die out. Nowadays, I can find those at the local mall. Big whoop. I can't find swinging pirate ship at the mall.

    It's fine if you, personally, don't care for flat rides. But it's not fair to extrapolate from that, that no one likes flat rides, and no one else will. That's a pretty large leap of logic, and I'd like to know what evidence you have to support that. Short lines are not evidence, by the way. By their nature, flat rides are not intended to have large lines... they are there to supplement, not be the main attraction. And even if you do want to count lines, I can think of many major attractions that rarely have a line... Goldrusher, Superman, Scream, Colossus, Revolution, Jaguar, Snow White, Pinocchio, Sleeping Beauty's Castle, and I think we can all relate frequent times that Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Big Thunder Mountain, Jungle Cruise, Batman, Viper, Jet Stream, and probably more that I can't think of right now, have been a walk on. Does that mean they're not popular, and should be demolished?

    Leave a comment:


  • indianajack
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
    Better start demolishing those Teacups now, then. Oh, and the carousels, too--in both parks. And trash that newly renovated Silly Symphony Swings. And the stuff in Flicks Fun Fair. Let's not even get started with Micky's Fun Wheel. And with the OC and LA Fair coming up, they might as well pack in those fun zones now. Obviously no one's interested in them, they're always deserted, especially at night. Don't these fair and carnival companies realize they're in a business no one's interested in?
    I don't care for any of those flat rides though I will admit that some of them make for nice decoration such as the Hatter tea cups at DL. Others have commented that SSS is not something they're even remotely interested in going on, but am glad it's there for the kinetic energy it will add to PP. Ditto for the King Arthur Carousel, which makes for nice pix when lit up through the castle gates. Do you think anyone goes to DLR for the flat rides in places such as Flik's Fun Faire? I'd bet that Zamperla and other flat ride manufacturers will go belly up within the next couple decades as the younger generation is demanding more immersive (and even interactive) experiences at theme parks. Flat rides are an anachronistic dinosaur of the business.

    Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
    Flat rides add a greater variety to park experiences. They also offer an opportunity to provide a thrilling ride experience in a space that would not be sufficiently large enough for a roller coaster. Plus, they don't cost the millions of dollars that roller coasters do, but can still are enjoyable to ride.
    There are actually other ways to maximize those small spaces with better attractions (cheaper too) that will be replacing flat rides in the next couple decades.

    Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
    Well, at least I know I won't see you in line. Make the line one person shorter for me, then.
    Well, there's not many people in line for many of those flat rides anyway at DLR, SFMM, Knott's, Castle Park or the local county faire so with or without me, you won't have any problem finding short lines.

    Leave a comment:


  • Neon Cactus
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    I wouldn't assume that an indoor Batman coaster would necessarily be air conditioned. SFOT has Runaway Mountain, which is indoors. Most of the queue is outdoors and only a very small part of the line, right around where you actually board the cars, is air conditioned. Once the car leaves the station, the main building where the coaster is located isn't air conditioned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Princess Victoria
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    If Six Flags wanted to invest in some dark rides I'm sure they could do a good job with them. Thing is, it's not their specialty so they might have more interest in doing something they are good at, like more coasters. But the Spee-Lunker Cave of the original Six Flags back in the day is proof enough that they can do dark rides. (Well, so long that they don't eventually gut them for something inferior. )

    Leave a comment:


  • brand42
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    I enjoy many of the flat rides at SFMM, especially when I feel I need a break after 4 straight rides on Goliath.

    I don't believe making Batman into an indoor ride would be that simple an undertaking as many seem to believe. Once you enclose it, you'd probably be dealing with a different set of building codes and regulations.

    Leave a comment:


  • JesterMn
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    Better start demolishing those Teacups now, then. Oh, and the carousels, too--in both parks. And trash that newly renovated Silly Symphony Swings. And the stuff in Flicks Fun Fair. Let's not even get started with Micky's Fun Wheel. And with the OC and LA Fair coming up, they might as well pack in those fun zones now. Obviously no one's interested in them, they're always deserted, especially at night. Don't these fair and carnival companies realize they're in a business no one's interested in?

    Perhaps your next proposal will be a restaurant that only serves main courses. Why waste time with appetizers, drinks, or desserts? People only really go to eat the main course.

    Flat rides add a greater variety to park experiences. They also offer an opportunity to provide a thrilling ride experience in a space that would not be sufficiently large enough for a roller coaster. Plus, they don't cost the millions of dollars that roller coasters do, but can still are enjoyable to ride.

    Well, at least I know I won't see you in line. Make the line one person shorter for me, then.

    Leave a comment:


  • indianajack
    replied
    Re: Will Magic Mountain focus more on flat rides?

    Originally posted by JesterMn View Post
    ^Yeah, that way amusement parks can be hours of waiting in line, and 2 minutes on a ride, and hours in a line, and 2 minutes on a ride, and hours in a line...

    Generally, if well chosen, flat rides help absorb some of the crowds, and allow you to get a thrill with a much shorter wait. And while coasters are great, there's nothing like a good spin and barf.
    The reason why flat rides have short lines is because guests are not interested in them. Build more rides that people want to go on. The "spin and barf" problem is another reason to see them go extinct.

    Leave a comment:

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