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  • #81
    Ah, I see you are the "I MUST HAVE THE FINAL WORD" type...so.....have at it buddy!!! Bitter, party of one!!!!

    LONG LIVE THE POPE

    Enjoy your ways, I'll enjoy mine.
    Katie :yea:
    Founding member of the BA I LOVE us!!!
    :sc: FIGHT ON!!!!!!








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    • #82
      Originally posted by KoH
      Katie, please don't compare the pope to the president. That idea scares the hell out of me.
      They both scare the hell out of me! :confused:

      Comment


      • #83
        I say cowardly excuse because some people are too cowardly to stand up and say...hey, there are consequenses to having sex. Sure "it happens" but I don't have to give in to desires. I don't have to do it cause everyone else is doing it. HELL YES it feels good, but what are the options??? Pregnancy, contracting AIDS, STD's etc.....WOW I can say NO...what a flippping concept!!!!
        Katie :yea:
        Founding member of the BA I LOVE us!!!
        :sc: FIGHT ON!!!!!!








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        • #84
          I told myself I would stay out of this, but I felt like if I could explain something rationally, maybe it would be taken that way.

          We live in a world where people think their actions have no consequences. They believe their actions affect no one but themselves. We know that is not the case. As far as sex is concerned, an obvious consequence of having sex is getting pregnant. With teenage pregnancy at epidemic levels, it is obvious that young people think sex has no consequences.

          I believe that God and the Church make no decree on anything without a reason and most of these reasons are for our own good. The church does not see sex as evil. In fact, Pope John Paul II's 'Theology of the Body" was an amazing study of human sexuality and how beautiful and sacred it is. The church teaches that sex is sacred because of its procreative function. You are participating in the act of creation, which makes it the closest you can be to heaven on earth. The reason it is supposed to be saved for marriage is because children should be raised in a family. There are a lot of problems in our society that I think could be solved by children being raised in a stable family.

          I think the churches teachings on sex are right on the money, even if I have not been able to live all of them. Contracting an STD is not deserved for sinful behavior, just a consequence of having sex. People need to learn to accept these consequences instead of blaming the church for not being compassionate enough. The catholic church is the largest supporter of missions around the world and compassion is a huge part of their mission.

          But someone has to stand for something, and against moral relativism in our world, and that's what the church does. The church has believed the same thing for 2000 years and speaks out for what it thinks is right, despite what the rest of the world is trying to say. I think our world still needs it. We don't always know what is best for us.
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          • #85
            Well, anyone who says that my love is wrong is the one that I say NO to!!! I see no consequences. As with everything extremism is what gets people in trouble. Too much drinking, too much sex, too much HATRED(*coughs*GeorgeBush!). That's where the problem lies. I refuse to let some man halfway across the world DARE to tell me who I should and shouldn't be in love with! It's all about choices. You make yours, I'll make mine!

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            • #86
              Originally posted by dramaqueen
              I told myself I would stay out of this, but I felt like if I could explain something rationally, maybe it would be taken that way.

              We live in a world where people think their actions have no consequences. They believe their actions affect no one but themselves. We know that is not the case.
              Let us not forget too, that when faced with the consequenses, there is ALWAYS someone else to blame for it too

              I used to blame everyone else for the failure of my marriage (my ex mother in law for being too controlling, among many other reasons) when in reality I was far too young and immature to grasp the concept of marriage and it's responsibilities at the ripe old age of 22, having lost my father only 5 yrs prior and needing to be loved, protected and secure. I certainly did not find that in a marriage where I was not even comfortable with who I was.

              Was my ex mother in law responsible for that? Nope..it was all me baby!!! It is because of this knowledge and forgiveness of myself and that of my ex that I am able to look not look bak with hatred on the entire situation.

              What this has to do with the Pope, is beyond me....
              Katie :yea:
              Founding member of the BA I LOVE us!!!
              :sc: FIGHT ON!!!!!!








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              • #87
                Well, you bring up a subject that is close to my heart. I do not think your choice is wrong and I don't believe that anyone should have the right to tell you who you love or what you are is wrong. I believe that God created you to be the way you are, and loves you, exactly how you are.
                The churches teachings say pretty much the same thing, except that the act of homosexual love is wrong, but only because it teaches that pre-marital sex is wrong. There is nothing in the teachings of the church that says "being gay is a sin" I personally don't advocate promiscuity of any kind, but a loving, committed, monogamous relationship is a different story.
                The stance I choose to take is hopefully compassionate. Love is a rare thing in this world and it needs to be celebrated where it is found. I hope the church will be able to focus more on compassion towards all and not judgement. Christ came for all of us and I believe all sin is equal in God's eyes. We are all sinners and we are all equal. We should try to be as compassionate and understanding as possible- and love is the greatest virtue. That kind of movement starts with the people of God living a message of love which is what I try to do. I would never say that love of any kind was wrong
                Last edited by dramaqueen; 04-23-2005, 12:53 AM.
                Check out the News Forum for the latest news with a Micechat twist!



                Do you MiceChat?
                Help support the site you love:
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                Make a donation with one of the boxes at the bottom of the page

                DMCA for life, yo.
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                • #88
                  Well, than I would never say that you are wrong

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Disneykat
                    Tell that to millions of kids who take a stand to save sex for marriage......an ideal? Oh Lord in heaven.....
                    I'm not talking about kids. I'm thinking of responsible adults. I'm thinking of the thousands who have died in Africa where AIDS is epidemic.

                    I don't revile those who counsel abstinence. I don't urge abstainers to have sex. I urge people who have sex to use condoms. I also urge tolerance for other viewpoints.


                    War is over if you want it...

                    Peace - Love - Mickey Mouse

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by Momzilla59
                      I'm not talking about kids. I'm thinking of responsible adults. I'm thinking of the thousands who have died in Africa where AIDS is epidemic.
                      Yes, but is it not true that if, as a child, one is taught good moral values, that they will have much more self respect for themselves? I know plenty of responsible adults who have taken a stand as young teens and STILL take a stand to this day as men and women in their 20's and 30's. Marketing sex as something "that happens" is just giving them an excuse to rationalize what they want to do cause they feel like it, and no one can tell them what to do, how to do it, etc, etc.
                      Katie :yea:
                      Founding member of the BA I LOVE us!!!
                      :sc: FIGHT ON!!!!!!








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                      • #91
                        Look, trying to control human instinct is like trying to stop the tides. Rather than put all your eggs in one basket and assume that people won't have sex for the common good, why not have a backup plan? Logical common sense to me.

                        While I respect the pro-life side of the abortion arguement, for example, I cannot understand people who are both pro-life and anti birth control. YOU CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

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                        • #92
                          Originally posted by MickeyMania
                          While I respect the pro-life side of the abortion arguement, for example, I cannot understand people who are both pro-life and anti birth control. YOU CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

                          Hmm, going on 32.....no children, no birth control.....I'm enjoying having my cake and eating it too. Thanks!!!!

                          (sex is not a bodily function and those who try to rationalize why it's ok to do it as long as you use birth control or a condom baffle me. Read the boxes and packages. They all say that it MAY NOT prevent the spread of such diseases)

                          I'm dizzy from all these cirlces.
                          Katie :yea:
                          Founding member of the BA I LOVE us!!!
                          :sc: FIGHT ON!!!!!!








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                          • #93
                            Originally posted by dramaqueen
                            The reason it is supposed to be saved for marriage is because children should be raised in a family. There are a lot of problems in our society that I think could be solved by children being raised in a stable family.
                            The church creates a lot of children without families by accident when someone breaks their abstinence pledge and, in the heat of the moment, realizes they don't carry any condoms or birth control.

                            I don't mind the meaning or compassion in what you've quoted above, I take issue with how the Church has gone about it, which is to put all the proverbial eggs in one basket. And furthermore, these are not laws that are made by God, but merely laws that are made by man. And one of the big accomplishments that will go down in history with JPII is that he was willing to recognize times when the laws of man had made a mistake, and apologize for it. Such as how they treated the Jews during WWII.

                            Furthermore, sex is a cultural issue beyond glamor magazines or porno movies in the western world, in less civilized societies you simply aren't going to be able to sit with your fingers in your ears and insist on abstinence and expect people to listen. This is part of why the situation in Africa gets worse every year.

                            I think our world still needs it. We don't always know what is best for us.
                            Oh man, does that statement need to be pinned up on a wall somewhere. If you can't trust yourself, who do you trust?

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                            • #94
                              Originally posted by Disneykat
                              Hmm, going on 32.....no children, no birth control.....I'm enjoying having my cake and eating it too. Thanks!!!!
                              That's nice. That's a choice you made, and you were able to stick to. The problem comes in where you get off to tell the rest of the world that they're ruining society because they aren't behaving more like you.

                              sex is not a bodily function
                              What do you think those parts have been put there for? Why do you think animals, with significantly lower intellectual capacity but still bodily control, use those parts the way they do? Do not tell me that monkeys, bears, dogs, rabbits, and all the mammals on Earth are only having sex after marriage.

                              and those who try to rationalize why it's ok to do it as long as you use birth control or a condom baffle me.
                              It's not okay to do it! In my house, it's not apologized for and you still will get what's coming to you for it, but condoms are there not to make it any less unacceptable, but to make sure that you don't potentially ruin a second life while you're at it!

                              Read the boxes and packages. They all say that it MAY NOT prevent the spread of such diseases)
                              True, they can break. That's why it's important to make sure that people know that and know about diseases and how to get tested, etc, rather than keep them in the dark.

                              You are trying to argue that a lack of information is superior to knowledge. And that is why you are losing this debate, whether you realize it or not.

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                              • #95
                                That's a choice you made, and you were able to stick to. The problem comes in where you get off to tell the rest of the world that they're ruining society because they aren't behaving more like you.
                                Um, no...that's putting words in my mouth. I am stating MY OPINION much like you all are.

                                What do you think those parts have been put there for? Why do you think animals, with significantly lower intellectual capacity but still bodily control, use those parts the way they do? Do not tell me that monkeys, bears, dogs, rabbits, and all the mammals on Earth are only having sex after marriage.
                                Uhhh, I don't follow many animals around but if you notice I don;t think they go around having sex with one another just cause they feel like it. THe mate and what happens as a result...they have little babies. Do they choose a mate each time? Yes, but they do not choose a mate just cause they wanna feel good.

                                but to make sure that you don't potentially ruin a second life while you're at it!
                                Ruin a second life? In what way? Oh for goodness sake in case what results is what sex is meant for? Creating a life? Oh I see.

                                You are trying to argue that a lack of information is superior to knowledge. And that is why you are losing this debate, whether you realize it or not.
                                I had no clue this was a race to the finish line. I'm merely stating my opinion and getting slammed because I do not agree with yours. Nice. I could care less if I "win" or lose this one. What cracks me up is how mad you all seem to be getting!!!
                                Katie :yea:
                                Founding member of the BA I LOVE us!!!
                                :sc: FIGHT ON!!!!!!








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                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by Disneykat
                                  Uhhh, I don't follow many animals around but if you notice I don;t think they go around having sex with one another just cause they feel like it. THe mate and what happens as a result...they have little babies. Do they choose a mate each time? Yes, but they do not choose a mate just cause they wanna feel good.
                                  They don't? Sometimes animals can be found attempting to mate with another animal of the same sex. It's certainly something that's well documented. That means either that homosexuality is something found in nature (which would put a really big crimp in your church doctrine) or that animals really do seek pleasure out of the whole process.

                                  Ruin a second life? In what way? Oh for goodness sake in case what results is what sex is meant for? Creating a life? Oh I see.
                                  So, in the event that abstinence fails (sorry, we can't all be as perfect as you,) you would choose that a young man or woman start off on terrible footing of being unappreciated by his/her parents, rather than having simply not been born thanks to birth control? That's quite a heavy judgment to sentence someone to, if you ask me, but that's just my opinion.

                                  I'm merely stating my opinion and getting slammed because I do not agree with yours.
                                  You're stating opinions as irrefutable facts. "Sex is not a bodily function." "Animals don't have sex for pleasure." I'm not expecting to change anyone's opinions here, but your words sound as though you don't even see this as an open issue. I've never slammed abstinence, but I said that teaching abstinence with no place for birth control carries a whole set of issues of it's own. Especially since, in my opinion, it encourages a lack of knowledge (i.e. "if we teach them about condoms, then they'll just go having sex without thinking of the results.")

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                                  • #97
                                    The Vatican's teachings on a number of subjects, including contraception, the ordination of women and homosexuality, are out of step with the beliefs and lifestyles of most American Catholics. But the Americans mostly find a way to stay in their faith by adhering to values most important to them and quietly ignoring those they disagree with.
                                    "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." Oscar Wilde

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                                    • #98
                                      Uhhh, I don't follow many animals around but if you notice I don;t think they go around having sex with one another just cause they feel like it. THe mate and what happens as a result...they have little babies. Do they choose a mate each time? Yes, but they do not choose a mate just cause they wanna feel good.
                                      One would think not Katie, I have seen situations where chimps do get it on just for the fun of it. Also, a male will sire many offspring from many females in a breeding season. Man truly does go against nature on this one.
                                      >>Alan<<
                                      Member 216




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                                      • #99
                                        That means either that homosexuality is something found in nature (which would put a really big crimp in your church doctrine
                                        From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: "The number of men and women who have deep seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided."

                                        Hmmmmmmmm
                                        Katie :yea:
                                        Founding member of the BA I LOVE us!!!
                                        :sc: FIGHT ON!!!!!!








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                                        • Originally posted by KoH
                                          One would think not Katie, I have seen situations where chimps do get it on just for the fun of it. Also, a male will sire many offspring from many females in a breeding season. Man truly does go against nature on this one.

                                          I stand corrected then my friends. In my blondness, can you tell who fell asleep in class during science????
                                          Katie :yea:
                                          Founding member of the BA I LOVE us!!!
                                          :sc: FIGHT ON!!!!!!








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