4/19: Linear Experiments

[Al Lutz]

Kevin writes that FastPass may be changing, plus he has a Soarin' review, a Hong Kong preview, and takes a look at the Flower & Garden Festival. Discuss it all here!

[Cousin Orville]

HKDL...Where are alll the rides? and shows? and E Tickets? It may succeed in spite of having not much to do, but it seems like everything you love about DL..and less.

Am i nuts?

[JiminyCricketFan]

Fastpass difference of opinion

I see Fastpass still as a major improvement of the parks and the multiple fastpass option as a further improvement. I have read your reasons for disliking the concept but hear me out.

I don't like waiting in lines and now that the computer is invented, I don't see why we cannot let the computer do the waiting in line and get fastpasses that DO schedule our return for various rides. I would not mind if to help with the managing of the flow of people they shorten the return window from one hour to 1/2 hour, or even 20 minutes. With the outrageous price of addmission of about $60 a day, why not maximize a guest's time in the park, allowing shopping or relaxing while waiting for the return time? I see that as a much more pleasent vacation than standing in line for 40 minutes to ride a 5 minute ride, and then doing that multiple times in the day. I remember running from one line to the next during my former trips to Disneyland. I know that you say that FP makes the unplanned have to wait longer, but so what? If some do not choose to use (or are so disorganized to use) a fastpass, why should everyone else be inconvenienced? I don't live near Florida so I am not there everyday. I can see how an AP user would see this differently, but for the common tourist, FP is a great maximizer of time on short vacations. Let's let people get multiple FP and let them enjoy their extra time relaxing by a fountain waiting for their return time than standing in the muggy sunshine for 45 minutes.

[Dustysage]

The queue to Sorin' looks much better than DCA's. If they could just change the film to something that fits EPCOT better, this would be a slam dunk for them.

The over all look of the Land seating areas looks much improved as well. A little more modern without ruining the whole thing.

[Club 33]

Thanks for the update Kevin. I'll be interested how the new Fastpass experiment works out.

[dsnylndmom]

Love the look of the queue in Soarin'! Great update

[Athlonacon]

Soarin' queue is interesting because it seems to go back to the "realism" in older Disneyland attractions. It's themed like a familiar airport but it's more embelished to create a fantasy-like setting. I think this is the type of theming Kevin was referring to in earlier articles about Disney's new rides not having a basis in reality. It looks super. As far as FastPass, I wish they would just do away with it all together because, like Kevin said, it takes away the fun of the theme park experience. You aren't able to decide, "I want to ride Space Mountain" on a whim and then do it immediately. I'm glad Disneyland is severely reducing their FastPass influence and it'd be nice if they eventually phased it out.

By the way, if there is ONE thing that's annoying, it's trying to get off an escalator when there's someone blocking the exit! You can't do anything...you can't get off, you can't walk backwards because there's people behind you, and you can't just stop because you'll be pushed through the exit. I pity the poor guests who have to make their way through that mess. There's really few things more frustrating than a bottlenecked escalator.

[disneyking]

Great article Kevin, thanks for all you constantly do to keep us updated.
I have to say that I think you're right about the FastPass thing.
While reading the article, I had visions of that Arnold Swarzzenegger (sp?) Christmas movie pop in my head. I can't remember the name of it, but it's the one where every kid wants the popular toy and the stores don't have enough of it in stock and bedlam ensues at toy stores...???
This is what I think is going to happen if this system goes full blown. And as a huge fan of taking my time and enjoying the parks when I'm there, that worries me.

[nish221]

Thanks for the update, Kevin!

Couple of things...

* I agree completely about the multiple fastpass. It will completely change the
dynamics and IMHO for the worse. BTW. I was just in WDW last week and didn't know
about the experiment, so I doubt if many other people did either. And that will
definitely affect the results.

* For HKDL, in the map there's a huge "thatched" building at the bottom of
Adventureland. It takes up almost a third of the space (on the map).
And it doesn't look like there's a caption for it. Any idea what it is?

[mickhyperion]

I would like to have heard more about the specifics of this TEST instead of so much speculation about worst case scenarios.

In particular, I'd like to know what the average length of time is now between the time you pick up a FastPass and the return time. Has that changed?

It seems to me that if the return times are set to, say, 3 HOURS later, consistently, then it will be hard for people to hoard more than one FP at a time for an attraction.

If the wait time is increased between FP uses on a particular attraction then they could theoretically maintain FP availability throughout the day just as they have done in the past.

Even if a person has an FP for every available attraction in the park, if they can only hold one per attraction and have to wait two of three hours before they can return, they will still only be able to get 3 or 4 FP's for one attraction per day, at best, not 20 by milking the machine everytime they ride then exit to get another.

But since we don't know any more details about the other tweaks which may have taken place during this test, its all just guesswork.

Do you know anything else about it, Kevin?

[KevinYee]

I would like to have heard more about the specifics of this TEST instead of so much speculation about worst case scenarios. In particular, I'd like to know what the average length of time is now between the time you pick up a FastPass and the return time. Has that changed?

Not appreciably. But since no one is being told about it effeciently (unless you happen to glance at your ticket), I think that is radically skewing the results. It's not an effective test.

Plus: Epcot is not a good test bed for this. Magic Kingdom would be a more realistic test. I fear the most they may think the Epcot results would translate to the MK, but I doubt they would.

It seems to me that if the return times are set to, say, 3 HOURS later, consistently, then it will be hard for people to hoard more than one FP at a time for an attraction.

They can't do that. The system is designed to make the return times progressively later in the day, based on how many have been given out already. If the hour of 8-9 am is very slow for giving out FPs, why should the system push out return times?

If the wait time is increased between FP uses on a particular attraction then they could theoretically maintain FP availability throughout the day just as they have done in the past.

Think of it this way. Even the old use of FP was just like depositing a xerox copy of yourself to stand in line. If you suddenly have the ability to deposit 10 xerox copies of yourself in lines everywhere, that may sound great, but isn't everyone going to be doing the same thing?? Where will all the people go?

FastPass does not create capacity. It does not increase how many people per hour get to ride a ride. There is no free lunch. Maybe I'm not understanding your question?

Even if a person has an FP for every available attraction in the park, if they can only hold one per attraction and have to wait two of three hours before they can return, they will still only be able to get 3 or 4 FP's for one attraction per day, at best, not 20 by milking the machine everytime they ride then exit to get another.

A saavy user under the new system could probably easily get on 20 rides in a day, if not 40. Reason: most tourists won't be saavy. And thus, you are creating two tiers of visitors: those who know the system and those who don't.

I have always been in favor of the dumb tourist. It's what gets us new rides at the parks. We simply must target that audience if we want continual growth at the theme parks.

[mickhyperion]

I'm not wanting to argue with you about this, so don't get me wrong. I appreciate and respect your knowledge and opinions. But let's discuss this a little more.

You say "They can't do that." Why? It seems to me they can do anything they want can't they? What would restrict them from adopting this? The reason for pushing the wait time out would be to spread the availabilty of FP's out to more people or to cause people to just say "skip the FP, let's just go on it now."

There has to be some way to recreate the same balance that exists now (for better or for worse) by manipulating return times if they are allowing more FP's for multiple attractions to be held at once, otherwise it WILL be a worst case scenario and the sky will indeed be falling.

On another point, maybe they will TEST it in the lowest impact park first (Epcot) and then try AK or MGM next, working their way up to the MK, tweaking every step of the way before making a final decision.

[KevinYee]

Oh, I don't mind debate in the least! I've always tried to keep an open mind.

On this topic, though, I don't see how they could do that. If they made return times exactly three hours later, people would POUR into the park at opening and they would issue hundreds of return times for 11:05 (three hours later). Result: at 11:05, a crush of people return. Repeat that crush of people every five minutes and you have an unworkable solution.

The only reason FP works under the old system is that is DOES push the return times further and further into the future when a lot of tickets are being dispensed.

[mickhyperion]

I chose three hours arbitrarily of course, but my real point was extending the wait time beyond what it is now. If the wait currently becomes longer as more tickets are given out, then make that wait even longer.

My idea is that if people have been complaining about not being able to hold multiple attractions' FP's at the same time, make it appear that they are getting their way by allowing it, but tweak the system in another direction to slow them up in other ways so the distribution to all remains as relatively "fair" as it is now.

My personal opinion about FP is that it is bad and needs to go. I rarely use it.

[nish221]

Ok, I'll bite...:-)

How about having the return time based on the expected return time of the stand-by
line? Like for example 30 minutes + the stand-by wait time. That will push out
the times. But this still doesn't address the disparity caused by the "people who get it"
that'll come in early and grab FPs for all the rides.

Well, worth a thought....

[lumpy]

Kevin;
As a father of a toddler I find FP's invaluable. For example an hour wait for Buzz Lightyear or Autopia would push my son's attention span to it's very limit and virtually end our day. Similarly it gives me a chance to ride Space Mountain while my wife and son wait a tolerable 10-15 mins instead of 1 hour plus. What I don't like is having to traverse to opposite ends of the park to ride I am just getting a FP for and wil be riding later. Again, having a toddler in tow makes this exponentially more difficlut.

Here's an idea I have yet to see anyone mention (yourself included). Why not have a central location where FP's are distributed, with all FP ride wait times and return times listed at that location. Allow only one FP at a time of course. You choose which ride you will hold an FP for based on wait times and FP return times. This would eliminate the endless, pointless trips across the park, and the associated foot traffic. The FP's would be linked because they would all come from the same central FP distribution point.

Just a thought. It seems like that would solve the complaints I have agout the FP system and maybe some of yours too. Love the site, keep up the good work!

One more thought:
I really don't mind that the system is inequtable because some people can't figure it out. It's really not that hard. What I can't stand is the "pay for cuts" systems like the Q-bot or Fastlane @ the SF parks. You've already paid admission, you shouldn't have to pay again for a tolerable wait in line. As long as it's available to everyone I don't see a problem.

[Reagan]

Nice article, Kevin.

I am in complete agreement about the Fastpass experiment. My whole view on fastpass is "less is more." Employ fastpass on only a handful of rides, restrict the number of fastpasses available (to allow minimal intrusion on the standby riders), and maybe even limit the number of fastpasses that one person can obtain in a given day.

-Reagan

[netenyahoo]

* For HKDL, in the map there's a huge "thatched" building at the bottom of
Adventureland. It takes up almost a third of the space (on the map).
And it doesn't look like there's a caption for it. Any idea what it is?

That is the building for Festival of the Lion King like at AK.

[Fantasmico!]

Kevin;
Here's an idea I have yet to see anyone mention (yourself included). Why not have a central location where FP's are distributed, with all FP ride wait times and return times listed at that location. Allow only one FP at a time of course. You choose which ride you will hold an FP for based on wait times and FP return times. This would eliminate the endless, pointless trips across the park, and the associated foot traffic. The FP's would be linked because they would all come from the same central FP distribution point.

Just a thought. It seems like that would solve the complaints I have agout the FP system and maybe some of yours too. Love the site, keep up the good work!

One more thought:
I really don't mind that the system is inequtable because some people can't figure it out. It's really not that hard. What I can't stand is the "pay for cuts" systems like the Q-bot or Fastlane @ the SF parks. You've already paid admission, you shouldn't have to pay again for a tolerable wait in line. As long as it's available to everyone I don't see a problem.

one fp distribution site? interesting thought, however i can imagine thousands of people waiting inline, especially at park opening. talk about a HUGE bank of fp machines. it takes a little bit of time now to get a fp because people have differnent cognitive speeds. maybe one machine isn't working and you have to try other machines. if you are feeling pressured already fron standing in line or whatever the frustration/anger possibilities could become untolerable.

i agree that fp isn't perfect. and i don't understand how many people don't get how to work it. that's okay. i enjoy using the system to reduce the time spent in line for the more popular e-ticket rides. of course, if the parks really managed ride loading to its fullest, maybe there wouldn't be the need for fp.

oh, ditto on paying extra to cut down wait times.

it will be interesting to see the results of the "new" system. i am afraid that those results will not give an accurate picture for oh so many reasons. kinda a waste of research, imo.

[MickeyMania]

FastPass may actually have a reason for existing at WDW but I wish they'd tear the entire thing out altogether here in Anaheim. It just gives locals an edge by virtue of being in the know, and adds a pretty crappy class system where there previously wasn't one.