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  • #21
    Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

    Thanks for the great article, Al.

    I'm especially pleased to hear confirmation that the Country Bears are not forgotten. I hope a new plan for Grizzly Peak that includes them will make it's way through the infrastructure wilderness soon. Even if nothing can be done with the flume ride, I hope the Playhouse can come to a surrounding property, such as the Habittrail.

    Good idea for them to redo the entrace area of DCA first. The impression it creates has long tainted the whole experience of the park for the worse. It's so representative of the DCA mistake.

    WDI should stage a "tear down the wall" day ala Berlin for that hideous mural and let the people take a whack!

    As for DoMs - - great term - - and why has MiceChat been plagued with such a huge influx of these kinds of posts since early summer? There seems to be an army of such posters that registered in summer of '07 - coming seemingly out of nowhere. And some of the posters are not just polite defenders of mediocrity, management, "change" and the status quo, but outright nasty and hostile about Walt Disney, quality art and attractions and traditions of the company... sort of like actual Walt Disney Company executives and publicists.

    Hmmm.......
    Last edited by merlinjones; 10-09-2007, 08:46 AM.

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    • #22
      Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

      No cameras inside It's a Small World? Now I know where those children came from.

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      • #23
        Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

        Good stuff. nice article.

        I don't get it with Grizzly River Run. How much of a no-brainer is it to just alter the ride so that guests are misted instead of doused? Then it's ripe for an animatronic makeover that everyone can enjoy all year long. That's not even an expensive alteration as far as I can tell, but of course I don't really know.

        That's crazy that there are currently no cameras inside Small World. I'm surprised people haven't taken to serious vandalism in there, armed with that knowledge. I'm glad they haven't, but man, that must be horrible for the CMs to realize that the ride is backed up and to have to run in there to fix things.

        I agree with other posters that this DoM concept needs to be handled very carefully. People have the right to say that they enjoy something as-is if they enjoy it as-is. That needs no justification.

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        • #24
          Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

          I cant wait to see some of the images and models for the new DCA Al keeps speaking of. It will be a great trip to two parks, for the first time since it opened, when it re opens.
          sigpic- Grumpy

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          • #25
            Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

            It will be awesome to see all these changes in place in a couple of years. I would never have thought that management would be willing to fork over the kind of cash that they are for the DCA makeover. I don't think it will turn DCA into a park to rival Disneyland, but I'm hoping it will make it a park that the visiting tourist will gladly spend the entire day at.

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            • #26
              Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

              I'm very excited about DCA. Very. I love the place from the heart of my bottom, and the plussing there is very exciting.


              The whole DoM thing... Oh, Boo Hoo. People don't agree with you? Create a label that automatically discounts not only their opinions, but also the way they live their lives. And you created the term yourself? Very clever, but, to quote my nine year old niece "Pah-Leeze"

              Look, I created a Term: WBrs. It stands for Wife Beaters. They are the ones who think that the best way to show something (or someone) you love it (them) is to point out every flaw be it tiny or humongous. After all, if they didn't love it, why would they spend an strangely large amount of time and energy pointing out the flaws to anyone who will listen.
              I'm not saying that Al is like this, I think his reporting is accurate and entertaining (if not a bit jaded), but there are loads of people in the theme park forums from whom I've read nothing positive at all. They are now WBers and as such are relegated to the sidelines.

              Two problems with the DoM term.

              1. As stated before, it is a label that automatically takes the opposing viewpoint and neutralizes it with little more than a flippant remark. Not to be dramatic, but this is the same type of response that other derogatory terms are created for. No one supports chipped paint, garbage on the ground, or spectro-magic. But now if someone says "Hey, I like the Maliboomer." They must be a DoM and also support chipped paint and other crap. The logical numbness is staggering.

              2. It's elitist, sour grapes, and whiny all at once. If a journalist is going to make observations and label them as "good" or "bad" (which are relative terms anyway) they have to live with and expect that people will disagree with them. instead of calling them names, look at the aguments, throw away the piddly (in your opinion) ones and address the rest in a reasonable and logical way.


              I read every update on Miceage, and have for over two years now. I sometimes agree, often disagree, but this is the first time I was.... I don't know.... disappointed.

              Seriously, I like reading the updates, I rarely comment, but I felt it needed to be said. With that, everyone may ignore the ramblings of this obvious DoM and return to life.
              St. Elizabeth, Patron Saint of Themed parks. Protect us from break downs, long lines, and used gum. Amen.

              "Dance like it hurts, love like you need money, and work when people are watching" - Dogbert




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              • #27
                Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                Wonderful article, thanks for the update.

                I still don’t see how Disney plans to resurrect the Dreams campaign. They have had a full 12 months now and so many people still know nothing about it that adding another year of confusion seems odd to me. Perhaps a name change to make people understand it’s a prize…but honestly because of the nature of how prizes are awarded I am not sure “contest” or “sweepstakes” would be applicable (or legal). And they can’t call the gifts free because I believe most are given away in the parks, so an entrance fee was paid (or AP fee). Even the mail in winners had to pay for a postage stamp, and the postcard. Maybe just call it the “year of a million no strings attached prizes” (although that may be a bit long for a 30 second bookend TV ad). And BTW, even with all the noises throughout the night, I would be willing to tough it out for a nights stay in the gallery suite.

                I have to say the concept of DoM scares me, mostly because it infers that those who happen to enjoy things that others feel are not Disney standard are in the wrong, and are the cause of management not making the changes that those others feel are so dearly needed. Mediocrity in most instances is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone should be able to share their opinions without fear of being labeled a DoM, and creating this label I fear may cause some to stay out of a conversation, not wanting to be put into that stereotype. I always thought open sharing of ideas was what we are here for. There isn’t a right or wrong…just opinions.

                A little piece of heaven

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                • #28

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                  • #29
                    Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                    Al, thanks for the update, it's the best birthday present I could ask for.

                    And Death to the DoM!

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                    • #30
                      Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                      Originally posted by merlinjones View Post

                      “Whenever I go on a ride, I’m always thinking of what’s wrong with the thing and how it can be improved.” - - Walt Disney
                      Do you do that, merlinjones? That's pretty grim. I go on rides to enjoy myself.... I guess I'm a low-life DoM.

                      Here are some more quotes:
                      "We believed in our idea - a family park where parents and children could have fun- together."
                      "Disneyland is a work of love."
                      "Disneyland is the star, everything else is in the supporting role."
                      "Disneyland is a magnificent example of show."
                      "It has that thing - the imagination, and the feeling of happy excitement- I knew when I was a kid."
                      All from the Walter.

                      1. He said wonderful things about the park. He endlessly championed it. Most of the "WBers" don't. They are afraid it might be used in a board meeting to support the cause of the evil bean counters.

                      2. You ain't Walt Disney. You ain't in charge of the parks. A businessman will always look for what can be improved and improve it. A-duh.

                      I think that the online watchdog community does an important job in keeping the public opinion on the mind of the cooperate, but trying to trivialize the opposing viewpoint of that community, by definition just as valid as yours, by giving it a label to make them sound like gibbering fools is just wrong.
                      St. Elizabeth, Patron Saint of Themed parks. Protect us from break downs, long lines, and used gum. Amen.

                      "Dance like it hurts, love like you need money, and work when people are watching" - Dogbert




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                      • #31
                        Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                        I alway love Al's Disneyland updates. I am happy to hear that a Disneyland landmark is getting a much needed update, but since we are going in February or March I am sad to hear it will be closed When we go (Any thoughts on Disneyland during March or February).
                        I do have to disagree with the removal of the sign, many of us love it as a place to take a family photo. It is extremely versital, and I love what they are able to do with it during the different seasons. I don't see what would be wrong with moving it as they move the park forward. It is kind of like the flower arrangement in front of Disneyland.
                        I do hope it is still there in Feb, or March for what maybe our last family photo. I understand, it may not mean much to those whom attend the park on a regular basis, but for us out of towners, it has alot of sentimental value. Maybe the few of us whom like it could get a petition to save that DLR icon.
                        One final recommendation since Moments with Lincoln, will sadley not be returning, maybe the show could be brought over to California Adventure. It would fit alot better than the Little Mermaid which should be put in Fantasyland were the old Boat ride was. He would fit, because he was instimental in bringing California into the Union during the Civil War.
                        Dave

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                        • #32
                          Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                          Originally posted by RenMan View Post
                          Good stuff. nice article.

                          I don't get it with Grizzly River Run. How much of a no-brainer is it to just alter the ride so that guests are misted instead of doused? Then it's ripe for an animatronic makeover that everyone can enjoy all year long. That's not even an expensive alteration as far as I can tell, but of course I don't really know.
                          I saw a show on the TV that stated the ride has different levels of splashiness. one for summer, one for winter.
                          So, couldn't the "winter mode" be used at night? Is it a huge thing to flip a switch? Are there some operational logistics involved?
                          That it is in the middle of the park (as opposed to most of Disneyland's big attractions outside (and/or contributing to) the berm) is the biggest issue with it. It would be nice to be able to use the underneath portions for something. Just another Pressler-responsible decision.
                          Last edited by sediment; 10-09-2007, 09:32 AM.

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                          • #33
                            Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                            So, T-Jel is a DoDoM?

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                            • #34
                              Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                              Originally posted by bigwavedave View Post
                              One final recommendation since Moments with Lincoln, will sadley not be returning, maybe the show could be brought over to California Adventure. It would fit alot better than the Little Mermaid which should be put in Fantasyland were the old Boat ride was. He would fit, because he was instimental in bringing California into the Union during the Civil War.
                              Um, let me check my history book internet for just a second....

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                              • #35
                                Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                                I think the sign in front of the park goes well with it, and it would be sad to see it go. Mr. Lincoln I feel would fit well in that part of the park because of his historic significance to our state. Maybe you could do Calfironia History by Fremont, or John Muir. I just think more people are familiar with Lincoln than the other two.
                                Dave

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                                • #36
                                  Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                                  Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                                  That section sounded more like a justification on why being negative is good.

                                  Why should people be insulted for actually enjoying something? Because it doesn't match up to someone else's 'standard' they shouldn't be allowed to say they enjoyed something and it was good?

                                  Labeling is insulting when the label is used in a derogatory way.
                                  I'm actually very disappointed in Al, but I can see where his over-inflated ego played him into posting the whole DoM thing.

                                  Basically the way I see it is Al wanted it all to be "you see things my way or you're a DoM, get them my pretties!" regardless of his "good intentions" and his lame attempt towards the end of that section to soften what should be seen as an open invitation to flame people that don't have the same ideals as him. He knows that it'll all just boil down to whether you believe "his standards" and that will be the bar set to determine if someone is a DoM or not.

                                  Wow... his ego knows no bounds, does it? Way to fracture an already splintered community even more... this will not come out good for MiceChat, but what does he care? That's just shady.

                                  Frankly, someone asking if DoMs can be lynched shows how rabid and wrong the folks on his side (the non-DoMs) can be as well. While I know it's probably a joke (at least I hope so), it was in VERY poor taste.

                                  Other then that, everything before the DoM section was a pretty decent read.
                                  Last edited by Burnt Toast; 10-09-2007, 09:59 AM.
                                  Burnt Toast
                                  The Magic Begins With Me...! 8:P

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                                  • #37
                                    Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                                    Originally posted by sediment View Post
                                    People have the right to be wrong....
                                    No they don't - it's a privilege, and Disney reserves the right to revoke it at any time.

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                                    • #38
                                      Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                                      Micechat will never be completed so long as there's good Walt quotes to bring up!

                                      I feel exactly the same way, yay merlinjones. Oh and Yay Walt.

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                                      • #39
                                        Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                                        Thanks Al for your most recent post. I have not posted here in a long time. I really enjoyed the section on the DoM. A lot of us have been going to the park for a long long long time and have seen and watched things come and go. I for one have longed for the days when the DISNEY brand would return. Sure we have seen sparks of light over the decades. I thank my lucky stars for people like John Lasseter and Tony Baxter doing what they can do to get that brand back on track. Just last May at the Pirate Premiere it was a joy to see John and Roy Disney Jr there walking down Main st. It good see these men and what they want to bring to the table. I understand postings on these boards, about how everything that is created by WDI so it must be awesome because it came from Disney. Rocket Rods, Light Magic, Pooh, DCA, etc... Walt Disney would not have stood for it and why should we. I know this is like preaching to the choir, but I get it and I love what you are doing. Thanks again Al for another great post.
                                        Jason

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                                        • #40
                                          Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

                                          Originally posted by bigwavedave View Post
                                          Hey CaliforniaAdventurer, tahoebob54 (My new Democratic friend) or anyone else, am I wrong in wanting to keep the California sign. I just feel it adds a bit of charm to the what I feel is an underachieving park with alot of potential.
                                          There is a thread discussing the changes to Sunshine Plaza versus the new 1920's look here: http://www.micechat.com/forums/showt...les-79133.html

                                          A little piece of heaven

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