10/9: Dead or Alive?

[bigwavedave]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

This whole DoM thing is a bit too personal. I seems Al needs to realize that not everyone has the same opinions as he does. I love his articles, but at times he is a bit negative. Like his whole kill the sign thing, it appears he has never seen how many people love getting their photos in front of it. I have seen more people getting their photo in front of that thing, than are actually in the park. Calling us whom like the way the resort is going, and calling DoMs is just well DUMB! Just because we don't share all your views doesn't make us blind followers, it is just we view things in a different light!
Anyways, it was nice to see some one else out there whom wants to save the sign. I know there is more of you whom would love to save THE CALIFORNIA SIGN. I KNOW, THERE IS MORE JOIN ME AND MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!

[bigwavedave]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

I liked rocket Rods too

[Burnt Toast]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Applause for Burnt Toast.

Thanks!

And oops.... I actually like the Rocket Rods... guess that just invalidated my whole post.

... I'm going to take that back now. Shun the non-believer! Shun! SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNAAAAAHHHHH!

I'm going to go back to Candy Mountain since Asterix believes that all Cast Members live and gets brainwashed in now.

Heck, I liked Light Magic... but I think it was only because I had to work the farewell season of MSEP working double shifts of opening cook/pantry/host for Bengal BBQ for eight hours then moving on to another eight hours at FANTASMIC! for six and sometimes all seven days a week... only to have them announce that they were extending the season due to popular demand for what... another month or so? I think that caused me to automatically like Light Magic because it wasn't MSEP and I was glad to see it finally go.

... I do have nightmares about those masks they originally were using though. /shudder

[bigwavedave]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Good luck from a fellow brainwashie

[Chernabog]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

... but you wouldn't know the answer sitting and making catty comments on the sidelines, would you?

Oh honey, that goes double. Putting words into my mouth? Now I hate the parks and the company? Turning this thread into another AP versus day guests versus CMs conversation? Whatever.

Really, I'm just as annoyed by people who take everything the worst way possible and direct it at themselves. Thinly veiled backhand comment? What the hell are you talking about? You think that by being a CM you're holier than all us APs? Why are you making this personal, dude?

[hollywood1939]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Regardless of how Al tries to disguise the fact that he wants his fanatical army to chastise folks that have a differing view then his, everything leading up to the articles release and the title of the article itself screams otherwise.

:lmao: Thanks for the joke but seriously, I really don't think he feels this way. If you don't like his articles though, may I ask then, why do you read them?

[Rocket Jet]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Oh my goodness, this update has truly opened up a can of worms. I for one was never looking to take sides when I started participating in this discussion board, and I agree that the DoM term is very problematic. Don't get me wrong. I always look forward to Al's updates and I enjoy reading his take on things happening at Disneyland quite a bit actually. While I disagree with his apparent marginalizing of people who have opposing view points, I still think he has every right to speak his mind in HIS columns. He never claimed to have no bias. When it comes down to it we all have our own agenda and our own bias. Al's use of the term DoM is certainly not the end of the world. Also, I don't think we will even have much mediocrity to worry about in the parks, with the likes of Tony Baxter and Bob Weiss looking after Disneyland and DCA.

[ROBONICS95]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

No one should be labeled, especially negatively, for having an opinion. Period.

If there is something that genuinely brings me happiness, I would like to be able to feel that I can discuss it with others without being considered the enemy.

[sediment]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

.....

Don't mind T-Jel. He is what we like to call a "DoDoM."

[Burnt Toast]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Oh honey, that goes double. Putting words into my mouth? Now I hate the parks and the company? Turning this thread into another AP versus day guests versus CMs conversation? Whatever.

Really, I'm just as annoyed by people who take everything the worst way possible and direct it at themselves. Thinly veiled backhand comment? What the hell are you talking about? You think that by being a CM you're holier than all us APs? Why are you making this personal, dude?

My reply with the whole CM thing were started by this comment, that you yourself made, below. I do believe I quoted this comment in my original reply as well.

(exceeding expectations is something they used to teach CMs).

... that's a personal comment that you wouldn't have made if I wasn't a CM. If I was a fellow AP/local or just a tourist Disney fan, you wouldn't have made that comment (heck, it wouldn't even had made sense if ya did), right? What they teach CMs had nothing to do with DoM or my feelings on the subject... yet you felt that it was necessarily to make that comment because you knew I was a CM. Huh.

So tell me this, since we've established that you made that comment based on me being a CM... because I don't blindly follow Al or agree with virtually lynching DoMs means that I probably wasn't taught as a CM to exceed expectations? Is that what you are saying? Really?

I will tell you this much, something that you probably wouldn't know that we evil nasty CMs were taught this as well when we became CMs... we were also taught to celebrate diversity and respect other people's beliefs, values, and opinions... even if it differed from our own. That's definitely not same underlying message that Al and his message against DoMs present.

I respect your opinion, really I do. I just don't agree with the way Al presented it or what should be done about it.

If anything honey, it made me feel that you were trying to act all holier then thou to me because you're an AP/local and I was a CM and I responded as such. Again, there's no need for someone from the sidelines making snide comments and acting like they know what a CM goes through or what they are taught... that's why there's sadly a lot of animosity between groups.

Your thinly veiled backhanded comment shouldn't have been made because it has nothing to do with my disagreement with the way DoM was presented and you wouldn't have made it if I wasn't a CM. Please don't try to feign innocence.

... I will admit and apologize for one thing, you didn't make a thinly veiled backhanded comment. It was a pretty blatant backhanded comment.

[Neon Cactus]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Overall a very good update...until the end. Seems like there is yet another label, now it's DoM, for some posters to overuse, like "declining by degrees".

I think that mediocrity is many times in the eye of each person. I try to always keep two things in mind when judging Disneyland and Disney World. First, Walt Disney died the year before I was born, so regardless of how many books I read or biopics I see about him, I am not qualified to speak for him. Second, the business world, as well as the general world, has changed in many ways since Walt died, and the way he did business in the 1960s may be quite different than the way he would do business during this decade, if he were still alive and running the company.

That said, I think that Disney has a commitment to maintain a higher standard of quality and cleanliness than other theme park companies. Do they do it? Sometimes not, but more times than not, they do. Their restrooms may not be spotless but based on my visit last weekend to Knott's, they are definitely cleaner than Knott's. Their cast members on Thunder Mountain and Space Mountain can also fill a car and release it from the station in under five minutes, which was challenging for Knott's.

But there are people who will never be satisfied with what the company does. Not to say they should sit on their laurels, but it's actually OK to enjoy a new attraction that the company does without specifically looking for five things to criticize about it. I guarantee you that there will be critics pointing out what Disney does wrong or didn't do with the DCA renovations when they are completed.

Bottom line, what is mediocre to me may be enjoyable to somebody else. And if they enjoy it, then why should I go out of my way to try to convince them it's mediocre and ruin their enjoyment of it? I have been to fine dining restaurants, but quite honestly it would be hard to convince me that the $2.49 double chili hamburger I had on Saturday from Tommy's, isn't gourmet, when I haven't experienced one in a long time!

[Barbossa]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Pretty good article, although I was hoping for some news about Tomorrowland and Frontierland.

As for DoM, well looks like it took off as there is now a thread about it on Ultimate Disney: http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/...ic.php?t=21203

I guess there they are comparing the term to Disney's DVD releases. The first poster is comparing Peter Pan PE to Jungle Book PE.

[hockeyamd]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

its a small chubby world

[flynnibus]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

While I try to praise what I do like about the Park, I would admit the majority of my posts are in relation to improvements I would wish to see. Balance is difficult to acheive in any enterprise, it seems.

Minus one t-word though.. I don't see your quests as single tracked though . Its fine to form an opinion based on observations and information. Its the single-tracked that tear apart the 'new' without seeing the same flaws in the 'old' that you see from many that is the most disappointing. Original is flawless.. new is always flawed. etc

Certainly there is a militant air (of course this appeals to a 'reactionary' like me ). I saw it as both a criticism of wholesale approval, but also its 'motivating' influence to those who oppose such practice. Anyway, I liked it. But I'm a 'complainer' .

As others have stated in this thread.. the same game turned around isn't nice either. You could be called a BoT.. basher of theme.. the BTR camp.. blind to reality.. WBH.. walt blow hard... or whatever. None of that is focused at you FS.. just illustrating the point

I already have a term for Al.. it's the prophet... and the followers will heed his call to arms I'm sure. Too bad DoM is too short for the search index, or we could see how much its being used already in the forums everywhere else. When Al introduces something into the lexicon... its over abuse is so disappointing. Lack of independent though is depressing at times.

[Burnt Toast]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

:lmao: Thanks for the joke but seriously, I really don't think he feels this way. If you don't like his articles though, may I ask then, why do you read them?

I like Al's "articles"... well, I guess I should call them what they are and call them "editorials"... but I also realize that he does have a fanatical fanbase that thinks he can do no wrong, just like the Disney company (or any other company for instance, Apple anyone?) has folks who think that they can do no wrong. He obviously has his inside sources and the "news" that he writes about are actually a good read.

It's his "editorials", like the one involving DoM, is where it gets a little out of hand sometimes. Sometimes I agree with what he's saying, sometimes I don't... I don't agree with this particular editorial and call-to-arms against the dreaded villains that he's labeling DoMs, not because I'm currently a long-time CM or a former AP or whatever... I just don't agree with it because the Disney community doesn't need to start chastising people for their opinions and their personal likes and dislikes. We don't need to add another group of folks into the already crowded mix of labels and, sadly enough, the animosity between them that makes up the Disney fan community.

Again, the massive amounts of people that log into this board and contribute to the community with their personal likes, dislikes, quirks, beliefs, and values... that's what makes this community great. Not everyone is going to like or dislike the same stuff that you like or dislike... my only concern is that we're now labeling these people as villains because they don't follow Al's standard.

The whole DoM thing was just presented in a very wrong way and frankly, it's just so unnecessary. Looking back on the comments that were made on the MiceAge main page up to the announcement of the term DoM and what we should do about them... it's all just wrong.

[Burnt Toast]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

No one should be labeled, especially negatively, for having an opinion. Period.

If there is something that genuinely brings me happiness, I would like to be able to feel that I can discuss it with others without being considered the enemy.

... and that is exactly my point.

[Bornieo Goes Bananas]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

I thought DoM's were "Dirty Old Men?"

WTF?

I agree with Al when it comes to DoMs but I'd rather call them by what they really are - Morons. It's the same reason why McDonalds has over "a Billion served" because it may not taste good or be good for you but its there, conveniate and easy.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Ladies and gents, I give you: The complete inability to understand someone else's point of view.

:whistlingI'm sorry but :yuck:

[mrfantasmic]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

eight hours at FANTASMIC!

*sputter* They had 8-hour Fantasmic! shifts?

[flynnibus]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

I agree with Al when it comes to DoMs but I'd rather call them by what they really are - Morons.

And now we start down the slope....