10/9: Dead or Alive?

[Rex]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

you're the other one! long have i searched through the the streets of berkeley and san francisco but never in all my travels have i met a fellow GOPer...i shall toast you with my heartiest wine

Clearly neither of you have ever been to San Joaquin County, which has a huge Republican following. Stockton is very much part of Northern California.

The part I didn't like about the DoM spiel isn't what everyone else has been chirping about. Although I'm not one to condone personal attacks, I'd like to believe the message is being a little misconstrued. I think Al was just talking about the blind "Disney can do no wrong!" followers, who shouldn't be insulted but definitely debated. No one should ever accept mediocrity from anyone or anything. If you aim for mediocrity and fail you get a disaster. If you aim for the top and fail, mediocrity is the worst you can ever do. Never should any person be content with mediocrity in any part of their life.

The part I didn't really care for was:
"Take a minute to post how important the higher standards Disney is usually known for justify their premium pricing, and that the best quality product is important to you."

Hey, let's not all justify any sort of premium pricing. That sounded like it was encouraging Disney to keep jacking up prices. Just because I would pay a certain amount to go to Disneyland doesn't make it right to charge that much. One Disneyland e-ticket in ten years does not justify premium pricing, and neither does a medicore second gate. Key phrase is "Usually known for." I don't think they're meeting the standards as of late.

I don't think there should be another price hike until:

1. Cast members get a significant raise (and no, I am not a cast member, just someone who loves great service and abhors bad service)

2. DCA meets its potential and DL gets another e-ticket.

I know, I'm living in a bigger fantasyland than the one behind Sleeping Beauty castle if I think there won't be several price hikes by then. But in this two years of 2 million or more dreams, that's mine.

[WDW1974]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Leave it to Al to stir things up ... just never happy with the status quo that crazy guy ... of course, a lot of great, creative men like Walt Disney, George Lucas and John Lasseter weren't either. And, no, Al isn't in that league.

I've almost stopped posting on this site because frankly the whole DoM mentality -- I've called them what they are Disney Apologists for years -- permeates the WDW forum and that's where I spend most of my time.

But Al nailed this one ... there is no doubt in my mind. And the fact so many people are attacking him over it (or at least taking him to task) tells me how close to home this strikes with so many of the 'foamer' crowd that believes Disney can do no wrong. They're the ones mindlessly buying LE pins as shops with unique merchandise get closed. They're the ones who buy Mulan 2 and Cinderella 3 DVDs as Disney almost went out of the real animation business. They're the ones who defend decisions that lead to dirtier parks with attractions that don't fit their environment or are cheap and insulting to Disney's creative legacy. They're the ones who saw nothing wrong with Epcot's Mickey wand or the BAH at the Studios.

At some point, if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Being a mindless fan of anything and everything Disney produces allows them to WalMart the product like they've done since the mid-90s.

That may be an elitist attitude, but so what? When did wanting the best ... expecting the best from a company that built its reputation ... its legacy ... on being without peer suddenly become a bad thing?

I guess it just mirrors our society. People are willing to accept less than they should in much more important aspects of life than Disney theme parks ... from the White House to education to healthcare to how we treat our poor and elderly ... so why shouldn't people make excuses when Disney lowers quality, while constantly raising prices?

The DoM mentality is what those uncaring Disney execs want because it allows them to throw out any *&^% knowing it will be devoured by a large portion of 'fans.'

I think that's really sad.

[tcsnwhite]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Leave it to Al to stir things up ... just never happy with the status quo that crazy guy ... of course, a lot of great, creative men like Walt Disney, George Lucas and John Lasseter weren't either. And, no, Al isn't in that league.

I've almost stopped posting on this site because frankly the whole DoM mentality -- I've called them what they are Disney Apologists for years -- permeates the WDW forum and that's where I spend most of my time.

But Al nailed this one ... there is no doubt in my mind. And the fact so many people are attacking him over it (or at least taking him to task) tells me how close to home this strikes with so many of the 'foamer' crowd that believes Disney can do no wrong. They're the ones mindlessly buying LE pins as shops with unique merchandise get closed. They're the ones who buy Mulan 2 and Cinderella 3 DVDs as Disney almost went out of the real animation business. They're the ones who defend decisions that lead to dirtier parks with attractions that don't fit their environment or are cheap and insulting to Disney's creative legacy. They're the ones who saw nothing wrong with Epcot's Mickey wand or the BAH at the Studios.

At some point, if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Being a mindless fan of anything and everything Disney produces allows them to WalMart the product like they've done since the mid-90s.

That may be an elitist attitude, but so what? When did wanting the best ... expecting the best from a company that built its reputation ... its legacy ... on being without peer suddenly become a bad thing?

I guess it just mirrors our society. People are willing to accept less than they should in much more important aspects of life than Disney theme parks ... from the White House to education to healthcare to how we treat our poor and elderly ... so why shouldn't people make excuses when Disney lowers quality, while constantly raising prices?

The DoM mentality is what those uncaring Disney execs want because it allows them to throw out any *&^% knowing it will be devoured by a large portion of 'fans.'

I think that's really sad.

You know, I was not going to respond to any threads about this issue at this or any other board I follow (and yes, they have picked up on what Al has said regarding the "DoM" folks), but I guess I will anyway.

WDW1974, I agree with you for the most part, and I singled you out as you are one of the folks that I respect the most across all the boards.
The only issue I have with the DoM's is, I would suppose, the way he phrased it. No doubt those that accept all things Disney at face value and praise the company as if they can do no wrong can lead to scary things. What I felt sort of offended by, and could see why so many are upset, is that it gives the impression that if we do not fully agree with Al's opinions on whatever is at hand, then were are automatically cast as DoMs. That is the impression that it gives off...at least for me. I am only speaking for myself, but can kind of see that some others feel the same way. It's as if there is no gray area in the fans' perceptions...that it is only black or white, and everyone has to chose a side. I don't think the reality of it is so. Again, perhaps people may think I, or others, are reading it all wrong...but this is what I take away from it.
Perhaps Al could have stated things a little more carefully, with the somewhat derogatory title not attached to it...
Differing opinions, and people speaking up about them is wonderful...but when we start outright labeling large groups of people because they perceive something different than ourselves, instead of agreeing to disagree and debate maturely, then I see things as getting into dangerous territory...reminds me of issues regarding race, sexual orientation, and the like. And here, we are simply talking theme parks and Disney product...entertainment that is in the end subjective.

[thejoshualee]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Don't mind T-Jel. He is what we like to call a "DoDoM."

Okay, okay, I recognize and appreciate your joke.

[JeffYardDog]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Well thats untrue. My friend just got hired into POD a few weeks ago and his starting wage is $9.40. He got casted as one of the rhino performers.

Which end ? And is there a wage differential ?

Well, at least you can be called an *** and not be offended ...

[TwilitWings]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Thank you for the update! It's always exciting to hear about what's coming up next at Disneyland and DCA.

I am concerned about the "labeling" of people as "Defenders of Mediocrity". Rocket Rods and DCA both opened up when I was still quite young, so I do have fond memories of it. Is Rocket Rods quite as grand as I remember it being? Probably not, but I think it's a little unfair to let people have rose-colored glasses about the "good ol' days" and yet for others brand their own nolstalgic joys as "mediocre" and "lacking".

Just my two cents, however. :]

[Magus]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

I'm very sad about what is going on right now.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

My heavens, did Lutz just go an entire article without bashing Annual Passholders or FastPass???? I must be dreaming...it, it simply can't be...

-- PMM

[MrLiver]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Don't bet on it. We've had this discussion on this board before over the years. They most certainly do watch the net, we've seen posted jobs for just such a position, and its my understanding that there have been "high ranking" Disney people who have meet some of the more prominent members of MiceChat and they DO know who we are.

If you really believe that the Internet has any bearing on what The Walt Disney Company does then please explain to us why the PeopleMover hasn't returned yet? Or why Pirates invaded Tom Sawyer Island, or why the Disney Gallery Closed?

[TDLFAN]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

What I think Lutz also failed to mention is that some of these DoMs (as he call them), apart for the real clueless ones who populate fansites like this one, are also Disney company-paid stooges placed on the net to create a false sense "happiness" and "approuval" in regards to Disney's lesser quality standards and small budgets that get in the way of creativity and true innovation that exceeds expectations. The whole "I am happy with my Disney of today" crap is as phoney as the Year of a Million Screams.

If you really believe that the Internet has any bearing on what The Walt Disney Company does then please explain to us why the PeopleMover hasn't returned yet? Or why Pirates invaded Tom Sawyer Island, or why the Disney Gallery Closed?

Because management is cheap?

[Pressler69]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

That World of Color show sounds awesome if they can pull it off. It's a shame they got rid of "Wonderful" for the title though.

If the show is a huge hit I can even see them doing performances at 9PM and 10:30PM just like they do with Fantasmic! and keep DCA open until 11PM when Disneyland is open until midnight. Maybe both parks will close at the same time just like they do in Tokyo.

If the show is just using water and projections with minimal manpower, it doesn't sound like the cost per performance would be as much as Fantasmic! or Remember. I can easily see multiple performances a night if that is the case.

[DisneyMickey]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Is WET Design working with Imagineering? I am picturing the Fountains of Bellagio with some other effects to add to the fountains.

I can't wait until they start tearing up the park and dismantling the Maliboomer, Paradise Pier and the entrance. This won't start until February now? First it was this summer, then it was October, now it's February?

[Pressler69]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

This won't start until February now? First it was this summer, then it was October, now it's February?

Remember, MiceAge is a site that reports on rumors and speculation. All information is very tentative and subject to change without notice.

Personally, I don't think they ever planned to start this stuff until AFTER the busy Christmas season. Remember, DCA also hosts an after hours Halloween event and they can't just cancel it to start construction, as much as we would want them to.

[pineapplewhipaddict]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

I'm actually...amused by this thread.

At first I was annoyed, and said to myself, "Yeah, name-calling isn't cool." And I still think that.

But the fact that so many of you are taking this label personally is just downright silly. Do you honestly believe that Al has a list of posters somewhere that he thinks are the essence of all evil? Of course not!

Al's a human being. Believe it or not, everyone is prejudiced and biased in their own ways. No matter how politically correct you try to act, you're still going to show some of your true colors.

And it's your opinion. You certainly have a right to it. That includes everyone.


This just shows the amount of negativity that passes through this message board. Everyone is looking to get offended and argue and hate, instead of trying to understand what the other person is saying.

When Al was referring to Pooh, and Rocket Rods, etc.-it's not that simply enjoying these attractions that makes you harm the Disney product. That was not what he was saying. Al was referring to the fact that some posters, usually not consistent ones, express that Disney can do no wrong and therefore that nothing within Disney can be improved.

You can love Disneyland and still that that it needs improvement. It's not a black or white scenario here. A poster a little while back wonders if they're a "DoM" because they miss the PeopleMover but they love Indiana Jones. Al didn't mean that at all. It's easily possible to love Disneyland but still feel that things could be improved, made better. That's why I have my AP...sure, I'm a little disappointed by Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage, but is that all of Disneyland? Absolutely not. Disneyland is so much more than just a couple of rides that one can have strong opinions on.

Making the generalized comment that those who critique the parks really hate it and that it doesn't make any sense that they still visit is just plain nonsense...that's like you're friend complaining about a fellow co-worker and then saying to them, "Well if you hate your job so much why don't you just quit?" That one single aspect does not reflect the importance to the person as a whole.

[pineapplewhipaddict]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

As for the article, I hope that they eventually (that means soon) decide to figure out and dedicate the time and money into adding those attractions etc. to GRR. I was looking forward to those things the most out of all the DCA talk.

And I won't miss the CALIFORNIA sign...it's supposed to be reminiscent of the beach but just how it came out it doesn't do it for me. Originally, there was supposed to be a huge water fountain in the middle of the esplanade, but of course it was cut from the budget. If that were built and asked to be destroyed, then I'd be unhappy.

Kinda happy Ratatouille got cut. I love the movie, but, theme theme theme.

Cars 2? Ick. I don't think the first one was that great. I'm excited for the attraction, though.

And especially The Little Mermaid attraction.

[Pressler69]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

And especially The Little Mermaid attraction.

This is what I'm most excited about. TDS may have gotten an entire land based after The Little Mermaid, but now the film is going to get the dark ride treatment it deserves. I hope they do it right and not Pooh us out of something grand.

[andek098]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

So where is the article everyone keeps talking about?

[SimpTwister]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

So where is the article everyone keeps talking about?

On the front page of miceage.com

[aashee]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

This was a great article by Al and what's most upsetting is that 90% of the posts are about the DoM reference. Come on people, let's not get that touchy. It isn't about your race, your gender, sexuality, etc. It's about people that pump up everything about Disneyland even if it's garbage.

I only hope the Disney big wigs are this passionate about improving their parks. I'd hate to think they are wasting valuable time discussing non-offensive labels.

Call me Dom, Dum or SOB I could care less. Just improve the parks period. At least they are on that track.

[tasman]

Re: 10/9: Dead or Alive?

Thanks Al for making the Hat the sign for DoMs.

I for one am glad the Ratatouille coaster isn't getting built...it has no connection to the theme of the park or to the individual lands.

I am like anyone else very glad that the Little Mermaid ride is going ahead but I think a Paradise Pier or Fantasyland location would have been more appropriate than San Fransisco. Also I wonder how this omnimover version will differ from the one shown in Little Mermaid DVD set...that one used the suspended vehicles from the Peter Pan ride not omnimover.