What's the deal with Pocahontas?

[The Mad Hatter]

I never saw it...I have no desire to see it...I know it's a cartoon, but it's not true to history, but it's based on history and I think it should follow history.

they didn't follow history because history is boring. She was portrayed as a strong woman in the movie and I think that's all that matters. We shouldn't rely on movies to be historically acurate...just to be entertaining.

[Cuzco-topia]

I felt it was slow and sappy. Not very interesting or deep characters...I didn't really care about any of the characters...which for me is what makes it or breaks it for a great movie.

[Xharryb]

When it first came out, it just didn't interest me at all and I hated the stupid, overplayed pop song. i tried watching it again as an adult who's willing to sit through almost anything, but it still didn't do anything for me. I can't really pinpoint why i don't like it, i just kept wanting to flip and find something else to watch.

[disneyland dude]

I never saw it...I have no desire to see it...I know it's a cartoon, but it's not true to history, but it's based on history and I think it should follow history.

but what if history should change? (well it wouldn't change but we might find out somthing different that changes what we think happend.)I think the movie was good despite the fact it was not factual.

[Retlaw Yensid]

I enjoyed the film, but they could have made some better choices with the story line.

[yensid98]

I never saw it...I have no desire to see it...I know it's a cartoon, but it's not true to history, but it's based on history and I think it should follow history.

The thing is that historians don't agree on what actually happened. There are many conflicting stories. Also Disney was very careful in selling the story as a fantasy based on the legend of Pocahontas. Never did they claim it was a factual re-telling of the events. So it's unfair to hold the film accountable to historical fact when that was never it's intention or how it was presented to the public.

Besides who wants to see a Disney movie where a 12 year old girl gets involved with a thirty-something man, is kidnapped from her home, forced to convert to another religion and dies from small pox at 21?

The film Disney made has the best of intentions as well as wonderful art and music. You'd be hard pressed to find a more beautiful modern Disney feature. What really hurt Pocahontas was the board room. The villian (John Ratcliff) was stripped of his pure evil, and the love between John and Pocahontas was never fully develpoed. One of those errors will be fixed with the new DVD which features a song, "If I Never Knew You", that allows the audience to see their love fully blossom.

Posahontas is not the best film Disney has made, but it is far from the worst. There was too much excellent work on the film to dismiss it.

[yensid98]

Oops! Double post. Sorry.

Still getting used to the boards.

[Pacha]

I agree with you yensid98. I think the message(s) the movie conveys are basically good ones.

Your other point is equally valid: Most Disney films aren't about accurately re-telling history. They're about using history as a vehicle for creating fantasy worlds that kids can escape to. Disney films also typically use historical figures as a basis for heroes that kids can look up to, identify with and learn from. Nothing wrong with that.

I pay our school to teach accurate history to my kids. I pay Disney to entertain my kids and maybe teach them a few good lessons here and there.

[CrazyDreamer]

Besides who wants to see a Disney movie where a 12 year old girl gets involved with a thirty-something man, is kidnapped from her home, forced to convert to another religion and dies from small pox at 21?

Oh I'm sure we could scrounge up a few people... :monkey:

[yensid98]

^ Probably, but only a few. Many more want stories from Disney that are universally enjoyed.

[IndyJn511]

I never saw it...I have no desire to see it...I know it's a cartoon, but it's not true to history, but it's based on history and I think it should follow history.

It really would have been boring if it were based on history. You see (pardon the historian geekeyness) Pocahontas, while a minorly important figure in native american history, NEVER MET JOHN SMITH.... EVER... It may have been more interesting for you guys arguing that she is the hottest animated caracter ever... Historically speaking, Pocahontas' tribe was a topless tribe. Not very disney sounding to me...

[IndyJn511]

The thing is that historians don't agree on what actually happened. There are many conflicting stories. Also Disney was very careful in selling the story as a fantasy based on the legend of Pocahontas. Never did they claim it was a factual re-telling of the events. So it's unfair to hold the film accountable to historical fact when that was never it's intention or how it was presented to the public.

Besides who wants to see a Disney movie where a 12 year old girl gets involved with a thirty-something man, is kidnapped from her home, forced to convert to another religion and dies from small pox at 21?

The film Disney made has the best of intentions as well as wonderful art and music. You'd be hard pressed to find a more beautiful modern Disney feature. What really hurt Pocahontas was the board room. The villian (John Ratcliff) was stripped of his pure evil, and the love between John and Pocahontas was never fully develpoed. One of those errors will be fixed with the new DVD which features a song, "If I Never Knew You", that allows the audience to see their love fully blossom.

Posahontas is not the best film Disney has made, but it is far from the worst. There was too much excellent work on the film to dismiss it.

Just read your post after my previous one. I've only heard that version once, but the one I posted I've heard on at least five occasions... interesting.... Lets get to the bottom of this!

[cellarhound]

I didn't like Pocahontas because I wasn't impressed with Stephen Shwartz when paired Alen Menkin... Colors of the wind sounded great when Menkin plays it on the piano... But the music was a little to sullen soft, introspective when orchistrated...

Menkin's best work is behind him, when he was wrighting with Howard Ashman... Little Shop of Horrors, Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and Beauty & the Beast where all amazing musical comedies... (It also strikes me how much Part of Your World and Somewhere that's Green are simular... There are times when I will swear they are the same song...)

When Ashman died and Disney brought in Tim Rice, it proved to be the best match for Menkin, but Rice I think is not interested in working for Disney for the long term... he makes too much money working with Andrew Lloyd Webber... (And Rice doesn't need the contract... If Jesus Christ Superstar didn't make Tim Rice a billionare, it was Phantom of the Opera...)


Stephen Shwarts is a great Lyracist, don't get me wrong... But IMHO his best work is behind him too (he hasn't had a memorable hit since Godspell and Kismet 30 years ago)... His lyrics have a tendancy to deliver moral lessons both in content and in how it is delivered... It is amazing when he gets playfull with the music, but once it slows down and becomes straight forward, IMHO it loses audiances. Colors of the Wind was a little too "preachy" and PC than what you see in his best work...

The combo left me a little disinterested. It isn't exactly as explosive as the Circle of Life... Which was Phil Collins...

Let's just say you aren't going to see Pocahontas on Broadway...

[cellarhound]

Wait a sec... Was Circle of life Phil Collins or was it Elton John? Sigh... I can't remember anymore... :P

[quasimodo1384]

Elton John

[Flint]

These movies do have to appeal to small children.

No, they don't. And they'd probably be better films if they didn't.

If Disney would get out of the please-everyone-in-the-focus-group mentality when writing their stories, they'd have a better product. By attempting to appeal to everyone, they appeal to no one.

[Nephythys]

Besides who wants to see a Disney movie where a 12 year old girl gets involved with a thirty-something man, is kidnapped from her home, forced to convert to another religion and dies from small pox at 21?

and here we have the more current politically correct anti-Christian, white Europeans are child molesters version.

:botox:

[Flint]

and here we have the more current politically correct anti-Christian, white Europeans are child molesters version. :botox:

Otherwise known as the truth?
OH NOES! *gasp* *horror* *gasp*
Heavens forfend! We must squelch that now!

*jingles collection plate**jingles collection plate*

[Nephythys]

Otherwise known as the truth? *gasp* *horror* *gasp*
Heavens forfend! We must squelch that now!

*jingles collection plate**jingles collection plate*

Your intolerance and antagonisim is not appreciated. Your brand of "truth" is nothing more than a transparent attempt to spread your anti-Christian sentiment and force it on everyone else, no matter how offensive or annoying. That much is plain in both this thread and the Hunchback discussion.

I don't think you would know "truth" if it bit you.

[Flint]

Your intolerance and antagonisim is not appreciated. Your brand of "truth" is nothing more than a transparent attempt to spread your anti-Christian sentiment and force it on everyone else, no matter how offensive or annoying. That much is plain in both this thread and the Hunchback discussion.

I don't think you would know "truth" if it bit you.

Ooh, personal attacks... how gauche.