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Hello DreamWorks, Goodbye Pixar? - Business Week, 3/28/05

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  • #21
    It would be funny to acquire Dreamworks Animation to only end up having them do "Home on the Range2"
    "As usual he's taken over the coolest spot in the house"- Father re: Orville 1963

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Reaver
      That's a bold and premature statement... Anime isn't big here now, true, but i has made huge strides in the last 5-10 years. Anime movies released theatrically, 3/4 of Cartoon Network programming made up of Anime... The Thundercats/Transformers/Robotech crowd is all grown up now, and wants more from their animation than many animation studios are doing. Spawn the animated series was drawn in Anime style, there were heavy anime influences in Atlantis for crying out loud. Never will be? We'll see....
      Don't get me wrong. It's not that anime does not have a certain amount of influence, but it will never be accepted as main stream. Premature? I disagree, anime has been around for the last 30 years and still has not found a significant audience. The kiddie shows you reference were not successful because the were anime, they were simply cheap to produce commercials for toy companies. 6-year olds were not demanding anime, they simply watched what was being offered.

      Now contrast that with what is a very cultural phenomena in Japan, Real Anime. Real anime is dark, VERY graphic, violent (in most cases), and even has touches of soft-core porn in some examples. This is NOT something that resonates with the general public in this country. Do you know how many MILLIONS were lost on Final Fantasy, Ghost in The Machine, and others they tried to bring here?

      This is not to say this is bad stuff, I find some of it really interesting and beautifully created, but it will always be a niche product for diehard fans. Jane Q Public and her little ones will not run out to the multi-plex for the newest Anime project, but they will go see a PIXAR, DISNEY, or even DREAMWORKS movie on name alone.

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      • #23
        I liked Shark Tale- alot

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Mr Snappy
          Now contrast that with what is a very cultural phenomena in Japan, Real Anime. Real anime is dark, VERY graphic, violent (in most cases), and even has touches of soft-core porn in some examples. This is NOT something that resonates with the general public in this country. Do you know how many MILLIONS were lost on Final Fantasy, Ghost in The Machine, and others they tried to bring here?

          This is not to say this is bad stuff, I find some of it really interesting and beautifully created, but it will always be a niche product for diehard fans. Jane Q Public and her little ones will not run out to the multi-plex for the newest Anime project, but they will go see a PIXAR, DISNEY, or even DREAMWORKS movie on name alone.
          Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli aren't real anime? Ghibli is only the most popular animation studio in Japan. And although some of the Ghibli movies have dark elements, they are no more dark than many of the villains in Disney Movies. I do see collaboration between Disney and Studio Ghibli resulting in classics that people will go to see.

          And millions were lost on The Prince of Egypt and I doubt that A Shark's Tale was a huge moneymaker as well. I'm not so sure about Ghost in the Machine, which was made for Japanese audiences and made most of its money in Japan, any money it made in the US was gravy.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Importance
            And millions were lost on The Prince of Egypt and I doubt that A Shark's Tale was a huge moneymaker as well. I'm not so sure about Ghost in the Machine, which was made for Japanese audiences and made most of its money in Japan, any money it made in the US was gravy.
            Sharks Tale made money... So far the box office is $ 337 million (boxofficemojo.com)... Which isn't bad for an animated feature... But it didn't have the merchandizing factor that Disney has...

            Which is more than I can say for Polar Express which just about broke even...
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            • #26
              Originally posted by cellarhound
              Sharks Tale made money... So far the box office is $ 337 million (boxofficemojo.com)... Which isn't bad for an animated feature... But it didn't have the merchandizing factor that Disney has...

              Which is more than I can say for Polar Express which just about broke even...
              Shark Tale may have made some money, but nothing spectacular. It certainly loses out on the merchandizing factor as you note and Disney is all about the merchandizing.

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              • #27
                I remember the movies Bionicle, my son and I loved them and of course they were Lego but my son (he is 11) was not impressed with Ghost in the Machine: Innocence, I was absolutely amazed at the depth of it. We Americans are fat and weak...the public would have a heart attack if they saw some real japanimation while in japan its the norm. It also seems to make sense why we got DCA and Tokyo got TDS Its like a religon nowadays, nobody can get offended by anything, I'm not into politics but I think there is a phrase for it.

                We need to get mean and lean...I'm hitting ebay for a bunch of Manga!
                Micechat member # 98

                TARDIS
                "Time And Relative Dimension In Space."

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                • #28
                  Here is a good review of the latest Studio Ghilbli releases on Disney DVD: A cat, a Princess, and a Pig

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                  • #29
                    anime isnt commercially successful???? yeesh have you been in suncoast or block buster recently? They have their own section now.. that was absolutely unthinkable just 5-10 years ago. Back then there were a handful of distributors if you wanted anything else. and particularly if you wanted miyazaki films that were not hacked and sliced up (warriors of the wind anyone?) you had to find a bootleg copy. It was completely impossible to find REAL copies of ANY anime otehr than what streamline and a handful of others were doing (and doing badly). Many people such as myself joined anime clubs where we would pool our resources and get together just to see the latest bootlegs from people who had visited japan recently, that was the ONLY way to see this stuff back then. Now you can see it all the time in video in stores with its own section, I still am shocked at what you can get now. Anime has made huge strides and continues to do so, and whether you personally like it or not, its not going to go away anytime soon nor is it going to shrink in the market its only going to get bigger.

                    When kiki came out released by disney here in the states, we travelled from oregon to seattle in one long day trip just to see it on thre big screen, we were amazed at how huge the crowds were for this, they had to turn people away that had been waiting for hours. This wasnt a tiny theater auditorium like it had been in the past for movie showings either. When streamline first released castle in the sky, it was only to little cracker box theaters that were tiny little affairs.

                    It was absolutely and completely unheard of to have normal tv stations showing anime, it still blows my mind what adult swim shows.

                    And anime by its definition is not necessarily "dark", you are confusing the main overall term with subgenres, anime can indeed even cover japanese childrens shows like chibi marukochan which has less voilent conflict than anything seen on the disney channel. Anime has MANY sub genres: anime just for boys, just for girls, just for office people, etc. the darker stuff with sexual over tones is a genre all by itself. Granted the stuff for boys and girls is a lot less PC over there, they are kinda like we were in the 50's with the whole cowboys and Indians thing; a little violence is good for the moral character of a boy (unthinkable now, but in the 50's that kind of thing was the norm).

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                    • #30
                      Disney should rebuild thier OWN studio....


                      Here's an idea...rather than Disney spend the money to buy Pixar or even Dreamworks..why dont they take that money and invest it getting back the kind of talent they used to have in THIER OWN ANIMATION STUDIO ?? Why do they need to BUY a animation studio when they used to be the best in the business..its just a matter of Iger getting the company back to that point !!
                      Mark

                      Contribute to my Johari or start your own!!
                      http://kevan.org/johari?view=MarkS01


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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Importance
                        Shark Tale may have made some money, but nothing spectacular. It certainly loses out on the merchandizing factor as you note and Disney is all about the merchandizing.
                        Well, Disney is part about Synergy... Which means using characters to buy your other products and services... "You make a movie, it goes to consumer products who put toys on the shelves of WalMart, the studio releases the video, the ride goes in the theme park...."

                        Shark Tale still has fruit snacks availble at grocery stores.... Katzenburg is a proponent of Eisner's "Singles and Doubles" philosophy... It is great to have a "flag pole" movie event... But increasing your studio production increases your cash flow if the movies are designed to do well enough to cover expenses and produce a smaller margin of profit... And occasionally you come up with a winner... Which in someways offers a more profitable model than Pixar, which produces one "Flag Pole" event every year...

                        Dreamworks has one "Flag Pole" event and a smaller "double" event... Not a bad move....
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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by MarkS01

                          Here's an idea...rather than Disney spend the money to buy Pixar or even Dreamworks..why dont they take that money and invest it getting back the kind of talent they used to have in THIER OWN ANIMATION STUDIO ?? Why do they need to BUY a animation studio when they used to be the best in the business..its just a matter of Iger getting the company back to that point !!
                          I agree, but they drained all their talent... It will take time to rebuild...
                          Check out my other blog:

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Reaver
                            As much as I want another Fantasia (2005 is out of the picture ), an entirely CG Fantastia is just not right. Fantasia was about the animation, and the ART of animation. I want to see the work of pen to paper, brush to canvas, not finger to keyboard. Fantasia is an art piece, and while CGI has it's place in the art world, the day Disney ditches traditional animation for an entire CG piece is the day we might as well turn our backs, sell our stocks and mourn, for Disney will be officially dead...
                            I wasn't saying an ENTIRE Fantasia in CGI.

                            I was thinking of one segment of Fantasia in CGI. In Fantasia 2000, every segment was created with a completely different form of art. The Flamingos, for instance, was done entirely in watercolors.

                            While an all-CGI Fantasia wouldn't be a good idea, CGI is certainly legitimized enough as art to deserve it's very own 100% CGI Fantasia piece. Then it can simply return to being just one tool of the greater process of animation.

                            And also, :lol: at myself for posting something here that meant to go in the Tokyo Disneyland forum. This is the kind of mistakes that only tabbed browsing can do.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Importance
                              Yes, and they've done well. However, I'm really not sure how well those movies will age (too many pop culture references) and there isn't much else that has come out of that studio. Everyone can lucky, once. Pixar and Disney have been consistent performers. Dreamworks Animation, not so much.
                              I agree with Importance. It is really important to point out that box office is not everything. Today, Finding Nemo and Monsters Inc. both outsell Shrek on DVD. While it is incredibly clever, in perhaps as little as ten years, the pop-culture references will have played out and half the humour will have been gone. That storytelling aspect that some people tend to forget is, in fact, a major factor in the appeal of movies. The Incredibles, Finding Nemo, were both favorably reviewed for their storytelling elements.

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Mr D
                                Kikis Delivery Service had the last grace to have a well known actors english dubbing, I'm in a brainlock, I think he did The Little Toaster, his wife shot and killed him a few years ago.
                                That would be Phil Hartman... and he's not the only well-known actor in Kiki's voice cast, which also includes Kirsten Dunst and Janeane Garofalo.
                                "Oh, now there's a surprise! I could have a heart attack and die from not surprised!"
                                -Iago, Aladdin

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                                • #36
                                  I forgot Kirsten Dunst was there as well, thanks for refreshing my memory
                                  Micechat member # 98

                                  TARDIS
                                  "Time And Relative Dimension In Space."

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