Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

[Darkbeer]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=3876673&page=1

Rob Doughty, a Disneyland spokesman, reiterated that there's no evidence the woman was actually dumping human remains and shot down Lutz's assertion that this is part of a growing trend.


"The problem I have with blogs is they don't necessarily have to have validated information," Doughty told ABC News. ABC News is a subsidiary of the Walt Disney Company.

Like Martinez, Doughty admitted that there are myths about illegal
Disneyland cremation ceremonies, but said the park has never had a confirmed case where human ashes were found. In fact, he said, his department receives, on average, two requests a year from guests eager to spread a loved one's ashes on the grounds of the park.

"Clearly this is a special place," Doughty said. "There's a great deal of emotional connection to Disneyland."

[Darkbeer]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

OK, these are my PERSONAL comments and opinions, and wanted it to be seperate than the news article....

So we have a Disneyland Spokesperson admitting he has problems with websites that report on Disney...

I think it is clear that the Disney Parks division does have an "issue" with websites, while other Disney divisions, such as the movie division go out of there way to accommodate website coverage.

AL Lutz was recently interviewed by Robert Niles of the USC Annenberg Online Journalism Review website released on October 22nd, 2007, and had these related comments...

http://www.ojr.org/ojr/stories/071022niles/

OJR: What's been Disney's reaction to what you've done?

Lutz: It depends upon the arm of the company. The parks division; they're not real happy. The other divisions, movies and music, they're fine. They appreciate the coverage and we have a good working relationship with them.

Did you see the coverage on Finding Nemo [a new attraction at Disneyland] and what happened with that? They invited in all the media, but they put the bloggers in the walkway by the Matterhorn [a location many yards away from the Finding Nemo ride]. That's what they think of the Web. They put them in Siberia. I feel badly that they don't understand that we reach more people in one day than all of these podunk newspapers that they fly out to cover these events.

And let me add, I can confirm where the websites were located for the Nemo event, I was covering the event for MiceAge, and all the Internet folks got placed on a side platform that basically allowed us to get the backsides of the celebrities if we were lucky. We spent a lot of time talking to each other, and even some of the Disney staff, who were very apologetic of the location we got.

As for the ashes stories, I have had many CM's talk about folks spreading ashes, seems like security has found folks placing "something" in landscaping all over the park over the years, and on rides. David Koenig has talked about the problem at the Haunted Mansion which has been discussed for years. And now CM's have an official policy to follow when they "suspect" someone spreading ashes in the park, I presume for health and safety issues (and why they use HEPA vacumms). But since there has never been a full fledged investigation by the police (and why bother?), Disney can claim "park has never had a confirmed case where human ashes were found".

Yes, places like MiceAge get the info out before Disney can wrap it up in a neat package and in its best light.

But I would rather know that the start of the Christmas Season was pushed back a week months ago (info I found out about and discussed), instead of the official announcement a few weeks ago, or the dates and times of the Candlelight Processional, etc. Sometimes you need the info early to plan a trip.

[Melonballer]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

I agree with you Darkbeer. I can understand why Disney might not want this information out there. They certainly do not want more people to do it, not do they want people to be bothered by it. I can imagine some people would not want to ride a ride if they knew they would be sitting in someone's remains.

[Chernabog]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

What's dumb is that they could actually address the problem and say, "hey, this is a stupid idea because you're going to shut down a ride, your loved ones will be vacuumed up and we may kick you out of the park", but instead, they simply want to say "Al's wrong" (which he isn't, so it's very misguided).

Why Disneyland can't make the best use of free publicity by now is beyond me. Maybe they need a new person in that job.

[Westsider]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

Rob Doughty needs to get out of that yellow building and come spend a few days at Haunted Mansion.

In my off and on time as a Mansion butler over the years I've dealt with multiple cremated remains situations and multiple Hepa Cleanups. Talk to anyone who has actually worked in the park for a few years at a popular ride, and they'll have a story or two about people dumping human ashes around. It happens Rob, whether you want to blame the "Blogs" or not. It happens.

Haunted Mansion, it happens. Jungle Cruise, it happens. Pirates, it happened just last week.

It's rather sad that the spokesmen who represent Disneyland to the media either don't know what they are talking about, or they have little real knowledge of how the park works and what really happens, or they are just outright liars.

[HeyBaloo]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

I have been wondering if they need a new Publicity Dept. head as well. When there is an issue that may well be considered controversial, something that, if handled in a smart and matter of fact manner, there would be no problem (ie: more americans are fatter than ever.. therefore...), instead they sort of crumble and pretend they can invent a reality of their own, which no believes anyway.

[jett]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

And let me add, I can confirm where the websites were located for the Nemo event, I was covering the event for MiceAge, and all the Internet folks got placed on a side platform that basically allowed us to get the backsides of the celebrities if we were lucky. We spent a lot of time talking to each other, and even some of the Disney staff, who were very apologetic of the location we got.

This has nothing to do with the topic of cremated remains, I think. So although I appreciate the coverage of websites, the basic fact is that major media is much more important than websites. I have worked and owned a fan-based website in another industry altogether, and in my opinion Miceage is lucky that it was invited in the first place. The thought that websites should get the best spots is rediculous IMO, just as calling newspapers "podunk" is extremely naive.

And once again, yes, I love the coverage on Miceage. But that doesn't mean that Disney owes them anything.

[speederscout]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

Something that I haven't seen mentioned on ANY of these 'cremation' topic threads is this: Disney's main concern about people spreading an unidentified 'dust' around. Anyone remember the anthrax scares in the not-to-distant past? And remember that Disney IS on 'target' lists.

That's why the rides are cycled out and shut down and the police are called: to identify the 'human remains' and to make sure it isn't something truly nefarious and deadly.

[Coheteboy]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

Something that I haven't seen mentioned on ANY of these 'cremation' topic threads is this: Disney's main concern about people spreading an unidentified 'dust' around. Anyone remember the anthrax scares in the not-to-distant past? And remember that Disney IS on 'target' lists.

That's why the rides are cycled out and shut down and the police are called: to identify the 'human remains' and to make sure it isn't something truly nefarious and deadly.

Good point.

[Ride Warrior]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

This has nothing to do with the topic of cremated remains, I think. So although I appreciate the coverage of websites, the basic fact is that major media is much more important than websites. I have worked and owned a fan-based website in another industry altogether, and in my opinion Miceage is lucky that it was invited in the first place. The thought that websites should get the best spots is rediculous IMO, just as calling newspapers "podunk" is extremely naive.

And once again, yes, I love the coverage on Miceage. But that doesn't mean that Disney owes them anything.

No. The mainstream media was fortunate that MiceChat staffers and MC associated Disney newshound activists stepped forward. Our people are much more in step with the goings on at Disneyland than outside reporters - regardless of whom they work for.

[Ride Warrior]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

Something that I haven't seen mentioned on ANY of these 'cremation' topic threads is this: Disney's main concern about people spreading an unidentified 'dust' around. Anyone remember the anthrax scares in the not-to-distant past? And remember that Disney IS on 'target' lists.

That's why the rides are cycled out and shut down and the police are called: to identify the 'human remains' and to make sure it isn't something truly nefarious and deadly.

Definitely. The security check points at the park entrance are not there for no reason. Park officials are doing their best to monitor/eliminate any possible lethal threats that could place guests in harm's way.

[TheManator]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

A message to CMs that can confirm the ash dumping:
You need to contact media outlets and reaffirm that this is in fact true.

[BigThunder]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

Very stupid PR tact for the resort to take. This denial will only keep the story alive longer. You've got a reliable reporter on the Disney scene saying one thing, and the Company basically calling him a liar. This fuels the fire of continued speculation on the part of the media. When will they finally wake up and figure out the power of the web?

[speederscout]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

A message to CMs that can confirm the ash dumping:
You need to contact media outlets and reaffirm that this is in fact true.

lol, you clearly don't work for the company.

[TheManator]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

lol, you clearly don't work for the company.

Not since 1994 my good man

[Lore]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

I'm with Disney on this one. There is no proof, despite what Al Lutz says, that people die. Let alone get cremated, spread around the park, vaccumed up, and dumped in a landfill.

There's also no proof people are fat. None at all. Why would Al Lutz claim people are fat? That's why you can't trust blogs. They don't have to check their facts like newspapers always do.

[TheManator]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

I'm with Disney on this one. There is no proof, despite what Al Lutz says, that people die. Let alone get cremated, spread around the park, vaccumed up, and dumped in a landfill.

There's also no proof people are fat. None at all. Why would Al Lutz claim people are fat? That's why you can't trust blogs. They don't have to check their facts like newspapers always do.

The first one sounds serious - the second one just pokes fun at the first one like a stick to a dead body.

[mousechild]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

Disney gains nothing by confirming the practice of ash dumping. No matter how silly it looks it is better for them to deny, deny deny. The story now is unconfirmed reports of remain dumping. If Disney confirms that this has occurred there are tons of Stories that can be written. Favorite place to dump ashes, how it happens, how Disney responds, think up whatever version you want none of them are good for Disney.

[pineapplewhipaddict]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

It's annoying that they're blatantly lying to the public that there's no way they can confirm that this stuff that people dump on rides is human remains or not. Just what do they take us for? We're clearly advanced enough through technology to determine what that stuff is...they're not even saying it isn't human cremated remains, they're saying there's no way to determine if it is!

Anyone who can read between those lines can see that these responses are full of it. I can see why Disney would want to deny the fact that cremated remains get dumped, but to say that there's no way of knowing? Give me a break!

[Darkbeer]

Re: Disney Disputes Pirate Ride Ash Scattering - ABC News, 11/16/07

This has nothing to do with the topic of cremated remains, I think. So although I appreciate the coverage of websites, the basic fact is that major media is much more important than websites. I have worked and owned a fan-based website in another industry altogether, and in my opinion Miceage is lucky that it was invited in the first place. The thought that websites should get the best spots is rediculous IMO, just as calling newspapers "podunk" is extremely naive.

And once again, yes, I love the coverage on Miceage. But that doesn't mean that Disney owes them anything.

OK, I was covering the POTC 2 premiere, and Disney Pictures came up with a list of photographers that were allowed to cover the event in the "photo pit", they placed us in the pit in a "ranked" order, so the photographers with seniority (meaning large and important coverage) were at the top, such as AP, etc... I was around the middle (If I remember correctly around 50th of over 120) of the list, as Disney Pictures understands "web hits" and the amount of viewership. A lot of those "Podunk" papers were let in after I was.

The point of the matter, Disneyland Resort (the "parks") has a bias against websites, and it is clear.

Was I lucky enough to attend the Finding Nemo press event, yes, and I got a few "goodies" and some free food and drink, but the PRIMARY purpose was to get photos and information.

Nobody said that websites should have gotten the "best" sites, those went to the "BIG" Media, such as national TV shows and wire photographers. But on the other hand, the photographers placed at the "Internet" platform get a LOT more views and provides much more publicity than many of the "secondary" folks that were allowed on the main platform.

Alas, I do think things have changed, and for the worse. When Tim O'Day still worked for Disney, he was great for the Internet sites and helped making sure that we got to cover events. The first year the National Turkey showed up at Disneyland, Tim was very grateful that I showed up to cover the event, and made sure I had a prime location to get photos of the parade (He was the one who came up with idea to "sponsor" the Turkey, and why Disneyland got it first, instead of WDW).

Does Disney have to do anything for anyone... the answer is clear... NO!

But how much "media" space did Disneyland get in the last few weeks with Al's stories about "small world" and the ashes. A LOT, and just in time for the Christmas season.

How much promotion have websites created in general, how many extra bodies have visited Disney parks and hotels, watched a specific movie, etc?

Those are thing Disney wants, and if they were smart, would not ignore and make "bad/rude" official comments about them. Rob Doughty made a big mistake in his comments to ABC News, IMHO.