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  • #41
    Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

    Originally posted by Dustysage View Post
    We would simply like to remind all users that voting is not about agreeing or disagreeing. It is about how useful or newsworthy a thread is. Not all threads will move you to vote at all (that is a good thing)
    This is an instruction that is difficult to get across to users. Have a look at the experience that YouTube is currently having with comment votes. Some people never learn/care to learn the difference between emotive knee jerk negative voting, and impartially placing a score of the worthiness of a thread.

    I had a similar system on an older board I was running. Initially we had a thread vote up/down system. It was never a useful barometer of the newsworthiness of a thread. Instead it only brought to the surface the notability of a thread. So the threads that were being featured were the ones where a lot of "me-to" votes happened. That was okay, but the side effect was that threads that were also newsworthy, but controversial were buried. This is because the anti-point people were giving the thread a negative score.

    I solved the problem by hiding the scores altogether, and only giving users a "vote for this" button. This meant that people could only vote items up not down, which gave a much more balanced (and interesting) result on the automated news portal.
    Disney FAQ#275: What is DCA?
    DCA stands for Disney Construction Area. All the Cast Members are themed with hard hats and steel toed boots.

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    • #42
      Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

      Originally posted by Dustysage View Post
      That isn't the purpose of the rating system at all. It is a feature that we intend to use to create a real time list of the current hot threads - as voted on by our members.

      When casual visitors come to MiceChat there may be 100 or more threads that have been posted in within the last few minutes. That makes it pretty darn hard to find the really interesting thread among all the chit chat.

      We will certainly be tweaking the system in the coming days (perhaps removing the thumbs down or not using the system in certain forums). But for the most part, the thumbs up/down is not about "Popularity" it is about how useful a thread is.

      You'll see the same approach on many large sites - like digg.com - where there are too many posts to determine what to read if you have only a short amount of time.

      Hopefully, people will give this system a chance, as we see it as an important step in helping to make MiceChat more usable for those who do not live on the site like many of our hard-core users do.

      We would simply like to remind all users that voting is not about agreeing or disagreeing. It is about how useful or newsworthy a thread is. Not all threads will move you to vote at all (that is a good thing)


      That may indeed be the intent but it still all comes down to a popularity contest.

      If one really wants to provide a 'selectability of interest' then it would make more sense to have some mechanism that recognizes the semantic content of threads by using the keywords that are specified when the threads are created, have a mechanism for posters to supplement them, and have an automated mechanism for extracting some additional words when responses are posted.

      Then fold this in with measurable popularity and frequency of response and timeliness of the thread (age, event oriented, etc.) and come up with some measures of merit in various categories and allow threads to be listed and sorted on such criteria.

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      • #43
        Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

        Originally posted by JeffYardDog View Post
        That may indeed be the intent but it still all comes down to a popularity contest.

        If one really wants to provide a 'selectability of interest' then it would make more sense to have some mechanism that recognizes the semantic content of threads by using the keywords that are specified when the threads are created, have a mechanism for posters to supplement them, and have an automated mechanism for extracting some additional words when responses are posted.

        Then fold this in with measurable popularity and frequency of response and timeliness of the thread (age, event oriented, etc.) and come up with some measures of merit in various categories and allow threads to be listed and sorted on such criteria.
        Possibly true, but I think that's way above the abilities of the tools that are available to vBulliten. :/
        Disney FAQ#275: What is DCA?
        DCA stands for Disney Construction Area. All the Cast Members are themed with hard hats and steel toed boots.

        Comment


        • #44
          Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

          I deliberately logged out to see if this feature is visible to the non member. It seemed to be. Now, let me see if I understand this correctly. In the near future there will be a section of these "voted up" threads. Will it only be visible to our members, or will it be available for everyone?

          I personally as a member don't like the idea of being told what I should focus my attention on. We all don't come here for the same reason.

          If I wasn't a member, I'd like to think that I would rather decide the merits of MiceChat as a whole, rather than be forced fed a list of threads "voted up" by people I don't yet know.
          BarbaraAnn

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          • #45
            Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

            Originally posted by monotonehell View Post
            Possibly true, but I think that's way above the abilities of the tools that are available to vBulliten. :/
            I don't know much about its extensibility model or API, but fundamentally most of such packages of any sophistication have hooks to processing things at various points and then it's a question of adding your own code to do such things.

            In this case it would involve capturing the keywords, storing them in database tables that are thread-related, and doing similar things for each message as it is posted. Then of course querying for such things, categorizing them, assigning rating factors and measuring frequencies , and then simmering and adding appropriate condiments.

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            • #46
              Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

              Originally posted by Barbaraann View Post
              I deliberately logged out to see if this feature is visible to the non member. It seemed to be. Now, let me see if I understand this correctly. In the near future there will be a section of these "voted up" threads. Will it only be visible to our members, or will it be available for everyone?

              I personally as a member don't like the idea of being told what I should focus my attention on. We all don't come here for the same reason.

              If I wasn't a member, I'd like to think that I would rather decide the merits of MiceChat as a whole, rather than be forced fed a list of threads "voted up" by people I don't yet know.
              Well, I wouldn't go that far but it does suggest that it would be nice to fold into any 'you might be interested in this' system one which could include your buddies' threads and contributions as rating factors and also keeping some history of what your interests are, category-wise.

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              • #47
                Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                Originally posted by Barbaraann View Post
                I deliberately logged out to see if this feature is visible to the non member. It seemed to be. Now, let me see if I understand this correctly. In the near future there will be a section of these "voted up" threads. Will it only be visible to our members, or will it be available for everyone?

                I personally as a member don't like the idea of being told what I should focus my attention on. We all don't come here for the same reason.

                If I wasn't a member, I'd like to think that I would rather decide the merits of MiceChat as a whole, rather than be forced fed a list of threads "voted up" by people I don't yet know.
                Think about it this way. If you have never seen micechat before, but clicked through on a link from another site, you would see a ton of forums. Each show only one thread (the last one posted in). MANY people simply leave the site because it doesn't make any sense to them.

                In the near future, we will have a new home page. The page will be divided into sections (Parks, Entertainment, News, Lounges and Other - it may also contain parts of the last roundup and other featured content) - Each section will show 5 or so threads that are currently ranked hi by our members within the last (24 hours or so). This will be dynamic and constantly changing, but at least it will give the new user a great place to start.

                For our hard core members, who don't need that kind of hand-holding, we will still have the traditional forum based view of the site as well.

                And for the couple of you who insist on not giving the new system a chance, your comments have been registered and we will consider them when the time comes. However, for now, we are going to do what we always do with our new features - see what works and what doesn't and then make changes later

                Thank you for your thoughts and help everyone!!!

                -Dusty
                MiceChat 101: Be NICE! If you don't play well with others, you are in the wrong sandbox.

                Find us on Facebook: .

                How do you support MiceChat? Join MiceChat GOLD!,
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                • #48
                  Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                  Originally posted by Dustysage View Post

                  And for the couple of you who insist on not giving the new system a chance, your comments have been registered and we will consider them when the time comes. However, for now, we are going to do what we always do with our new features - see what works and what doesn't and then make changes later

                  -Dusty
                  Who's not giving it a chance ?

                  And it's not like we have any choice in the matter anyway.

                  We just think it may be the wrong way to deal with interests being based upon a concept which is fundamentally about popularity.

                  Good luck with it anyway.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                    I admit that I was intimidated when I first logged on here at MiceChat. I didn't learn my way around all in one day, and I certainly didn't run away. I can understand the general idea behind this concept. It is just another way of showing people what is available here at MiceChat. I admit that I do like the idea of these "voted up" threads being divided by the forums that they are in.

                    I personally don't navigate MiceChat at all from the Home Page. I have always used NewPosts, and my User CP. I even did that before I became a member on MiceChat and was a very new computer user on a few other Disney sites. It is only after I have read what is new that I venture into the different forums.

                    I will defintely be watching the progress on this one. I always wish MiceChat much success on all of their endeavors, and I know that the "greater good" is the top priority.

                    I always appreciate being able to talk things through.
                    BarbaraAnn

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                      Originally posted by Barbaraann View Post
                      I admit that I was intimidated when I first logged on here at MiceChat...
                      It's definitely a lot more overbearing now than when I first started browsing MC over a year ago. There's text and links all over the shop. The mind boggles.

                      But it is nicely organised into categories, and most people will drill down to what interests them, if they're familiar with how forums work.

                      I'm with Monorailman and Dusty on the concept of a portal page to ease people into Micechattery. Been there and done that a few years ago on a crafting community board and a power co-operative political discussion board I've ran in the past. I've been following developments on YouTube recently, watching them cope with spam and nasty comments.

                      After about a year a busy forum expands into many different topics and you have to adapt things to make it easier for users to find what interests them. Some move so quickly with chatter that you start developing weekly digests for human consumption (I'm convinced that anyone who can keep up with all categories on a forum is a R.O.B.O.T!).


                      @JeffYardDog: vBulliten has an RSS feed that you can siphon from any forum/s, someone with the know how and time could use that to fish for news of interest. But I'd rather utilise the 1000-odd human eyes that read the forums every hour than try to develop a server-side heuristic.
                      Disney FAQ#275: What is DCA?
                      DCA stands for Disney Construction Area. All the Cast Members are themed with hard hats and steel toed boots.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                        Originally posted by penguinsoda View Post
                        No more hurtful really than seeing your thread with a single star beside it really. The only difference it that with the star rating system it couldn't go into negative range.
                        To me they were less imtimidating. seeing so many green thumbs up, on almost all the posts really ( to my mind anyways) does not reflect the most important or most news worthy threads. it boggles the mind. Being hidden is better, and more acurate to me.
                        I have always hit new posts, I get new posts which is what I want.
                        Micechat works, we know this, It is an awsome site and was always easy and none complicated. heck this is the fasted growing site out there for Disney. Some times adding to much does not make it easy to navigate.
                        or maybe its the ADHD in me, seeing all the green tumbs is confusing me . :lmao:

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                          While I understand what your trying to do with the new 'thumbs up/down' rating system, it appears to be ripe for abuse. Is it a coincidence that the only two threads that have been 'voted down' in the Disneyland forum where started by the same poster? It looks to me as if some members may use this new system to hand out what amounts to 'retaliatory ___' - but now they can do it anonymously and with immediate results. Though no action is taken by MiceChat when a thread (or in reality, a poster) is voted down, I can certainly see it having a chilling effect on certain members when they continually see a bright red thumbs down on their opinions.

                          Here's a possible solution:
                          Eliminate the thumbs down altogether and have the lowest thread rating be zero - i.e. no thumb at all. Count only the positive votes. This will serve the same function to better rate and organize the threads, but without the negativity. Any casual visitor will still be able to see at a glance which threads are the most popular and no one will be scared off from posting their views.
                          Please visit my Big Thunder/Disney Inspired Model Railroad


                          Dream big. Do what you love.

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                          • #53
                            Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                            I really don't like the thumbs and numbers on new thread search. The star system did not show up there. To be honest, I'm not going to read a thread just because it has a large number by it. IMO a lot of the votes will be based on other things besides if the thread is good or not.

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                            • #54
                              Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                              Originally posted by TikiRoomLiz View Post
                              MM and Dusty, I just have to say that you two are doing a great job of keeping this site up to date and easier to navigate. I joined last October and am amazed at how much MC has changed since then. Keep up the good work guys!
                              What she said.

                              I think having the bottom score ending at 0 isn't such a bad idea. If someone takes the time to start a thread with good intentions but, as already suggested above, says something that people disagree with, the thread as a whole might be marked into the negative category suggesting that this is now a "bad" thread. And I think there may be a tendency to dogpile on a disagreeable topic. So...if we keep both the thumbup and thumbdown, but limit the bottom score, the new visitors will still get the benefit of viewing some of the hotter topics, but the OP won't walk away with the thought that everyone HATES their thread. If the thread is overly rude or inappropriate, it would be moved to the litterbox anyway...no?
                              Last edited by Mac Daddy; 11-10-2007, 08:54 AM.

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                              • #55
                                Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                                I noticed all the "thumbs down" on the threads are gone.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                                  Originally posted by PrincessY View Post
                                  I noticed all the "thumbs down" on the threads are gone.
                                  They're either back, or still there.
                                  Disney FAQ#275: What is DCA?
                                  DCA stands for Disney Construction Area. All the Cast Members are themed with hard hats and steel toed boots.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                                    Originally posted by monotonehell View Post
                                    ..................
                                    If possible take away the ability to vote something down, only let people add a positive vote to something. We're already seeing it on the boards, people are using the vote down feature to "disagree with questions". This kind of thing discourages discussion, it's easier to press a button than to state your opinion. This is bad for a discussion forum. A question should be answered not voted on.

                                    Also if this is meant to drive a public content page, hide the ratings from public view. Voting on a blind headed system discourages "me too" votes and gets a more honest result. Also seeing your thread in the red for no good reason, other than you're proposing a point of view that is unpopular with some people, will upset some posters and damage free discussion of points of interest.

                                    Encourage users to click on threads that they think are important, that they enjoy or other criteria, but keep the workings hidden to avoid skewed results.
                                    Agree 100%, I see threads voted thumbs down, that are decent threads with lots of good discussions, they are voted thumbs down due to some members personal issues with the OP. I think we should remove the thumbs down option and only allow a Thum bs up, That way you can sort by all the thumbs ups and not cause discourse by having some of the "unpopular kids posts" always get thumbs down in the negative ranges, even if unwarranted. Or you can add an individual rating system to each post, so that people can rate on a specific sub post within the original post. For instance if there is a discussion you could rate each post to that discussion based on if you agree or disagree with what has been said. I would limit this to thumbs up only. But that would be much harder to implement I am sure. So my vote at this point would be either remove the Thumbs Up/Down system or just allow a Thumbs up vote, that way if there are lots of Thumbs up, users could still sort by thread ratings without causing the "highschool" childish thumbs down votes just because people are "not cool" or not "liked/popular"
                                    JM2C.

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                                    • #58
                                      Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                                      so far I do not like how this system is being used. I don't even see the point. I will ignore this "feature".

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                                        If you'd like to know "Why" we are using this system before you decide to ignore it, please visit our testing page for the new Front page of MiceChat:

                                        http://www.micechat.com/forums/portal.php

                                        While we will probably be removing the thumbs down, the voting of threads will be very important to front page page views and we'd appreciate your continuing to use it for threads that you think people shouldn't miss.

                                        -Dusty
                                        MiceChat 101: Be NICE! If you don't play well with others, you are in the wrong sandbox.

                                        Find us on Facebook: .

                                        How do you support MiceChat? Join MiceChat GOLD!,
                                        Save

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Re: Vote It Up/Vote it Down

                                          Originally posted by Dustysage View Post

                                          While we will probably be removing the thumbs down, the voting of threads will be very important to front page page views and we'd appreciate your continuing to use it for threads that you think people shouldn't miss.

                                          -Dusty
                                          I'm happy to hear you are considering removing the thumbs down part. I think that will make the feature better.

                                          Comment

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