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  • #61
    Originally posted by PhotoMatt View Post
    Did you have the opportunity to review the TLDR version? If not, please let me repeat a relevant part. If you have an axe to grind, please grind it elsewhere.
    My questions are about the rules that you posted in the latest version.

    My questions are clear and specific, and I think deserve clear, specific answers.

    And no, Matt, I'm not grinding an axe.
    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
    designed to appeal to everyone."

    - Walt Disney

    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
    - Michael Eisner

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

      It now reads:

      "Constructive criticism of Disney management in their professional capacity is allowed. Criticism that derails a thread will be moved to the Litter Box."

      Still unclear how you are defining "constructive criticism" (and, by inference, non-constructive criticism). Examples would help explain.

      To clarify, is criticism of Disney management that derails a thread be the only thread-derailing post moved to the Litter Box? What about other non-critical posts that derail a thread? Is your aim to stop threads from being derailed by any means that derail them, or to quash criticism of Disney management?
      Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one.

      Common Sense is the good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.

      In other words, it depends on the situation.

      Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

      Also, a question on #16:

      "If you are going to post something that's not nice, ask yourself if it has a purpose."

      "Something that's not nice" is wiiiiide open to interpretation. Much criticism of Disney would be perceived as "not nice" by some people, but "spot on" by others. What exactly do you define as "not nice?" Again, examples would help explain.
      Nice - pleasant; agreeable; satisfactory.

      Again, Common Sense is the good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.

      Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
      And #28:

      "28. Humor, wit, satire and sarcasm are welcome, where appropriate. Stop flagging posts because you don't have a sense of humor or you don't like sarcasm."

      What to you define as "appropriate?" (For example, I'd assume you'd find sarcasm directed at other members to be not appropriate.)
      Appropriate - suitable or proper in the circumstances.

      Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

      By way of observation...

      Do you truly think it's necessary to post "Be nice" 14 times... including "Please re-read #12 a few times" (#12 is "Be nice.").

      To me, it comes across as patronizing and snarky.
      Yes, it's necessary. It emphasizes that there really is just one rule. If everyone would be nice to each other, the other rules would not be necessary. I also think it's funny. The repetition serves to emphasize my main point, but it's also amusing, at least to me. I do respect your input, but I think we simply differ on what is humorous and what is not. While I respect your opinion, I don't think there is enough evidence to support that any changes are necessary.

      Patronizing - apparently kind or helpful but betraying a feeling of superiority; condescending.

      I don't think I am superior to anyone here. I have admitted my mistakes, and I have promised to fix them. I have opened discussion to everyone and asked for everyone's input. I don't see how that could reasonably be considered as acting superior to others.

      Oh, here is another bit of information that everyone might find useful. MiceChat has had many moderators since it began. I don't know of anyone who has had their moderator or admin status revoked. I'm sure there might be one or two, but I could not name names. If any admin or moderator wanted to come back, they could. All they would need to do is sign in.

      I have been an admin for almost 4 years now. Do you know how many people have asked to be a moderator in that time? Zero.

      Please don't imply that anything I do is an act of superiority or intended to be condescending. There is no evidence to support that claim.

      Comment


      • #63
        If stuff that I had done (repeatedly) was called out (specifically and with the exact wording that I had used), I suppose I'd have an axe to grind too.

        Also, the site rules always (as long as I've known) had the repeated "Be Nice" bit. I knew that, even having "only" been here a year. Makes one wonder if others never actually, you know, read them?

        Comment


        • #64
          PhotoMatt, would the following post be allowed under the new rules?

          Originally posted by MickeyPal View Post
          If stuff that I had done (repeatedly) was called out (specifically and with the exact wording that I had used), I suppose I'd have an axe to grind too.

          Also, the site rules always (as long as I've known) had the repeated "Be Nice" bit. I knew that, even having "only" been here a year. Makes one wonder if others never actually, you know, read them?
          "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
          it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
          together with every variety of recreation and fun,
          designed to appeal to everyone."

          - Walt Disney

          "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
          - Michael Eisner

          Comment


          • #65
            one question Matt.......
            How would you classified TROLLING.......
            I ask so I can be clear of the understanding -thank you
            Soaring like an EAGLE !

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
              PhotoMatt, would the following post be allowed under the new rules?

              What rule does the post violate?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Eagleman View Post
                one question Matt.......
                How would you classified TROLLING.......
                I ask so I can clear understand -thank you
                Please give me time to answer. I will have it by tomorrow.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by PhotoMatt View Post
                  What rule does the post violate?
                  You don't think that post is a sarcastic poke at another member, in retribution for that member's previous posts?

                  You seriously don't think it violates your rule about being nice?
                  "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                  it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                  together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                  designed to appeal to everyone."

                  - Walt Disney

                  "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                  - Michael Eisner

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

                    You don't think that post is a sarcastic poke at another member, in retribution for that member's previous posts?

                    You seriously don't think it violates your rule about being nice?
                    I sincerely wish that folks could start being “nice” to each other. Matt has his work cut out for him.
                    Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by PhotoMatt View Post

                      Please give me time to answer. I will have it by tomorrow.
                      Matt That be OK............
                      I read up......on that topic....over and over
                      for I got warning some months ago by pink monorail -not by you
                      I have try my best to understand ,
                      what did wrong so, I would not do it again.


                      and I do have one more question.......under same line....
                      what does mean ,when person/member get a warning?

                      I know ,I'M not prefect by no means.....
                      But same token....when comes to members of this group
                      I know try ENCOURAGE them.....best way I can....
                      life to short....
                      Last edited by Eagleman; 06-30-2019, 09:45 PM.
                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        What I love about this site, is that it is fair and balanced. It is a fan site, dedicated to, and run by, people who love the parks and all things Disney. And, yet, it doesn't shy away from telling it like it is and pointing out things that could be better, used to be better or are done better in other parks.

                        You can find plenty of that in this article: https://www.micechat.com/229565-disn...unted-tickets/

                        I am totally in favor of gently nudging Disney management in the right direction (if, in fact, they are reading the articles. And I hope they are.) But, I agree with many of the people here who have posted here that outright hostility to current Disney management is probably counter productive, because if people grow to hate the messenger, they will not be open to the message.

                        Bottom line: Disneyland isn't a disaster. None of the lands are total failures. And Disney isn't run by incompetent people.

                        In fact, Disneyland is a wonderful place, and I enjoy myself every single visit. Even when it is crazy crowded and my favorite rides are down, I can still find something positive about it. And, I hope I'm not being presumptuous by saying that 99% of the people reading this post agree with me. I'm not even sure why the other 1% are reading my post, but I'm happy to hear your thoughts on that, too.

                        As to the rest of you, I'll bet, as much as you love Disney and Disneyland, there are still a few things that can be improved, right? Just because my kid got a low score on a test, doesn't mean she's ugly and stupid: she just needs to try harder next time! And rather than getting mad at her or her teacher for grading the test, I just need to gently encourage her. Yelling won't help, but keeping silent won't, either.

                        Disney needs to hear honest feedback from the people that know and love it the most, even if the truth is sometimes a bit painful. But if we don't present this information in a reasoned, and kind way, Disney won't listen to us, and that will not be in anyone's best interests.

                        So...let's all resolve to be honest, but kind. Not because we have axes to grind, but because we care!
                        Last edited by whiteness; 07-01-2019, 06:13 AM.
                        Dumbo rats: the other lovable rodents.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          PhotoMatt, would you allow this post under the new rule #14 ("Constructive criticism of Disney management in their professional capacity is allowed"), or would it be deemed non-constructive criticism and/or not nice, and sent to the Litterbox?

                          Originally posted by LilMonsterPageantHelper View Post

                          Cheap Out Chapek has been coached and helped repeatedly by Burbank's corporate communications team. Everyone knows he seems stiff and corporate and scripted - like he doesn't really care about Disney Parks because he totally doesn't!!!

                          People in DLR Entertainment were used to help at the last few D23 Expos and they got Lasseter up on stage with Chapek last time to try and bring excitement and genuine passion for the parks onto the stage with boring Chapek. Now there's no Lasseter to bail out Cheap Out Chapek, so the communications team is seriously worried about how the Parks presentation is going to go over with fans.

                          Specially after all these budget cuts from Cheap Out Chapek have come to light in the last couple years since the last D23. Cringe-worthy is only the start of it, he's soooo bland and corporate and he doesn't care about the Show or the specialness of Disneyland. Our managers say that to Cheap Out Chapek Disneyland is just another bottle of ketchup or cheap plastic toy to sell to consumers!!!
                          "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                          it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                          together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                          designed to appeal to everyone."

                          - Walt Disney

                          "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                          - Michael Eisner

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                            PhotoMatt, would you allow this post under the new rule #14 ("Constructive criticism of Disney management in their professional capacity is allowed"), or would it be deemed non-constructive criticism and/or not nice, and sent to the Litterbox?

                            Rule 14 has been edited. Members have stated in this very thread that all opinions should be welcome. The post does not derail a thread that is about missing elements in GE.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by PhotoMatt View Post
                              Rule 14 has been edited. Members have stated in this very thread that all opinions should be welcome. The post does not derail a thread that is about missing elements in GE.
                              Thanks -- I see #14 is edited to read "Criticism of Disney management in their professional capacity is allowed." I was wondering more if "Cheap Out Chapek," "Cheapie Chapek," "Cheapta$tic Chapek," "Crapta$tic Chapek," "philistine plastic salesman," etc., would be allowed. I think those are within the realm of criticizing a public figure in his professional capacity, but others may not agree -- you're likely to get a lot of flags that it's being rude and not nice. I'd like to get your take on whether those kinds of labels on Disney execs (public figures in a publicly-traded corporation) will be allowed.
                              Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 07-01-2019, 10:24 AM.
                              "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                              it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                              together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                              designed to appeal to everyone."

                              - Walt Disney

                              "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                              - Michael Eisner

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                MATT ...Did you forget my Posts.....
                                are you still thinking ?

                                I know you get busy !
                                Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by Eagleman View Post
                                  How would you classified TROLLING.......
                                  Trolling – (verb), as it relates to internet, is the deliberate act, (by a Troll – noun or adjective), of making random unsolicited and/or controversial comments on various internet forums with the intent to provoke an emotional knee jerkreaction from unsuspecting readers to engage in a fight or argument.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by PhotoMatt View Post
                                    Trolling – (verb), as it relates to internet, is the deliberate act, (by a Troll – noun or adjective), of making random unsolicited and/or controversial comments on various internet forums with the intent to provoke an emotional knee jerkreaction from unsuspecting readers to engage in a fight or argument.
                                    I agree.....again I'M not prefect.......
                                    Thank You......I just want a better understand....
                                    and also try my best "TO BE NICE"
                                    I do not come on Mice Chat to get into......
                                    arguments
                                    .....
                                    Again Thank you ,for getting back with me .
                                    Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      "O" Matt -there one more question that was not answer.....
                                      under same line....
                                      what does mean ,when person/member get a warning?
                                      Soaring like an EAGLE !

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        You know, I've been on a lot of forums and discussion groups over the years, and helped moderate a few. From CompuServe, Prodigy, and Usenet, to more modern platforms. Moderation is pretty much always a thankless job.

                                        Many communities find themselves in need of refining or restructuring of the rules at some point. Most of the time, it's in the "more restrictive" direction, because people like to push the boundaries. It's always a bit painful: there are people who don't want things to change, that like the way it was, and see the changes as curtailing their particular brand of discourse.

                                        What I have noticed is that when the moderation staff comes to the community with the new rules, knowing that there will be pushback, they love when the people that were part of the reason for the rule adjustment do the following:
                                        - continually ask for more-and-more-specific clarification on the rules, indicating a desire to get as close the the edge as possible.
                                        - do the above while willfully ignoring the context and spirit of the rules, again indicating an intention to be "technically" in the right, without regard for making discussion pleasant.
                                        - use anyone else's posts but their own as examples for the above clarification, indicating a lack of ability to recognize that they might have contributed to the need for the rule changes.

                                        I have to say, however, that "hyperlinking to one's own posts on the same page, less than five posts above" is a new one, and is sure to get a great response, as it implies that the staff not only isn't able to follow a conversation, but doesn't know how the notification system works on the site they run.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Thanks to everyone for their input. I am going to close this thread, and updates regarding the progress of the new forum will be posted in a separate place.

                                          As Sergeant Esterhaus might say if he had been a MiceChat member, "Hey! Let's be nice out there."

                                          Comment

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