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  • Wii the only real "next-gen" console

    It makes sense when you put it this way...

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/6181823...wstop;title;11

    Wright's preference for Nintendo's platforms comes as no shock, considering how he sizes up the next-gen console race. Prompting the off-the-script comment, Wright said that Nintendo's "new-gen" console is the only real next-gen console. "The only next gen system I've seen is the Wii--the PS3 and the Xbox 360 feel like better versions of the last, but pretty much the same game with incremental improvement," the openly opinionated designer said. "The Wii feels like a major jump--not that the graphics are more powerful, but that it hits a completely different demographic," he continued. "In some sense I see the Wii as the most significant thing that's happened, at least on the console side, in quite a while."
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  • #2
    Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

    The person does have a point.

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    • #3
      Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

      That's what I've been trying to say all along, but this guy said it better.

      The PS3 is essentially the PS2 with some updated technology. Technology that if you don't have a HDTV makes absolutely no sense for you to purchase. It's probably going to be THE system in 3-5 years when EVERYTHING is HD ... but not now.

      Same with the 360. It's essentially the better Xbox with better technology, better online capabilities and better packaging.

      Both consoles fail in the fact that they haven't been coming out with anything 'new'. Granted, Halo 3 probably rocks and is a hit. But what new 'successful' franchises have been made from the PS3 or 360? None. What new markets have the PS3 or 360 catered to? None. Has anybody that you can think bought a PS3 or 360 that wasn't already a gamer and already had a PS2 or Xbox?

      Now, you look at the Wii. Granted, no new franchises have been launched (even though Rayman was a multi-platform game, it's playability on the Wii is leaps and bounds above any of the other platforms). They have however been selling to a new market. Most people who have a Wii probably didn't have a GameCube. Nintendo is now THE system for a new generation.

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      • #4
        Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

        I don't agree with this at all.

        -the difference between PS2/xbox and PS3/360 is huge. Yes, not all the games take advantage of it, but some really do. More than just advances to graphics is detail, physics, story-telling ability, multi-media, New online environments, etc, etc, etc..

        -A new demographic does not a "next-gen" make. At it's core the Wii is a PS2 with a motion controller. The fact that their is innovative games on it is a boon, but really, nothing is new. Motion control isn't new (and it's on the PS3 anyway). Yes, they are able to tap into the "casual-gamer" but how does that make it the only next-gen?

        -I'm excited that Spore is showing up on the Wii, but I think Will Wright will be surprised how few of the casual gamers will play the seemingly hard-core game. (of course this is supposing that the Wii Spore is a quality game that isn't a hacked down version of the "real" game, like most Wii ports are)
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        • #5
          Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

          The WII is the most original thing to happen to digital games since the first ones. It really does things differently and their games are fun.
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          • #6
            Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

            I haven't turned on my Wii at all in probably four or five months and I hate saying that since I've had that console since launch.

            The way I consider it, as much as I love the system and it's "potential"... the Wii like cotton candy. Sugary, sweet... oh so fun for about 10 minutes. Until the inevitable feeling of emptiness in your tummy.

            Or like eating Chinese food. It looks good, it looks like you're getting a lot... but you are left hungry again after five minutes of finishing your meal.

            The games aren't there for it. I want something with a little substance... and other then Twilight Princess and Metroid 3, there hasn't been any game with any real bite... or hell, even make you think a little. It's been like 99% sugary, empty calorie minigame fests. I don't want that anymore... and it doesn't look like it's going to be changing for the better anytime soon in the area that Nintendo needs the most help in... 3rd party support.

            Can't wait for Galaxy and Brawl... then the inevitable Kart and Animal Crossing... but nothing from a 3rd party (which is what Nintendo needs to survive) interests me in any way... it just screams GameCube and what happened with that console. Spore I'll get for my PC. I'm not going to be playing anything cross-platform on the Wii if I can get it for my 360 instead... unless it's something that is only fully enjoyed with the Wii Remotes (like if they make a good Star Wars lightsaber game, anyone?).

            I'm overall disappointed with my Wii so far and I hope that changes. The summer was a horrible drought of no good quality games... and other then 1st party games, which Nintendo will probably fall back on their "Let's Make Mario Do EVERYTHING! Lets make "Mario Curling"!" mantra, I can't see it getting any better.
            Last edited by Burnt Toast; 10-31-2007, 11:19 AM.
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            • #7
              Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

              ^^ Resident Evil 4 on the Wii is really fun. That's the one I'm playing now but I hear you on not turning on the Wii very often. Super Mario Galaxy will change that for a month, I'm sure.

              To say that the Wii is the only "true" next-gen console is more fanboy BS. Each gaming generation improves graphics and sound by increasing the processing power -- it is the thing that DEFINES the next generation (for the Wii, however, the processing power increase is less substantial).

              I was sort of disturbed to read, however, that the plethora of non-traditional Wii gamers who don't like epic games (like Twilight Princess, according to Miyamoto, in an Entertainment Weekly interview) has resulted in lowered sales of those titles. Thus this means we'll see fewer of those types of games.

              Really, each system has its plusses and minuses. If you're picking just one of them up, you just need to evaluate what best fits your gaming and technology needs.
              I am grateful... grapefruit! ~ Bjork (upon winning Best International Female Artist at the BRIT Awards)
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              • #8
                Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                It all boils back to the same points...

                Some people think 'next gen' means next evolution in processing/graphical power. IMO, that is a simplistic approach.

                The Wii and its control system has been a COMPLETE disruptor technology in the market. Not only is it redefining what elements people must encorporate, its blowing the doors off the traditional market and expanding into new ones.

                The next superdooper video card does not do either of those things.

                If the games appeal to you or not - that's a personal thing (I still believe those who never play it are because they don't play it in groups) but you have to acknowledge it for what its done.

                Next Gen because its shaken the industry to the core and established new frontiers.

                Simple games are often the best because they focus the competition on the core things - not fluff. SuperMarioKart battle mode was the best thing for YEARS - and it had nothing to do with the graphics, the branding, or anything - it had to do with the control and depth in varation that totally focused the players on competition and allowed huge variation in skill levels to show.

                The worst games are those that 'top out' and you can't really separate good players from average players consistently because the game flatlines in its ability to allow a good player to excel.
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                • #9
                  Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                  Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                  It all boils back to the same points...

                  Some people think 'next gen' means next evolution in processing/graphical power. IMO, that is a simplistic approach.
                  Except that for the last 6 generations, the definition of a new generation has to do with an increase in processor technology.

                  1st Gen: Pong, etc.
                  2nd Gen: Atari 2600. etc.
                  3rd Gen: NES/Sega, etc. (8-bit)
                  4th Gen: SNES. etc. (16-bit)
                  5th Gen: N64/Ps1
                  6th Gen: Gamecube/Xbox/Ps2
                  7th Gen: Ps3, Xbox360, Wii

                  Is it a simplistic definition? OK sure. But that's how it is defined.
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                  • #10
                    Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                    Originally posted by Chernabog View Post
                    Except that for the last 6 generations, the definition of a new generation has to do with an increase in processor technology.

                    1st Gen: Pong, etc.
                    2nd Gen: Atari 2600. etc.
                    3rd Gen: NES/Sega, etc. (8-bit)
                    4th Gen: SNES. etc. (16-bit)
                    5th Gen: N64/Ps1
                    6th Gen: Gamecube/Xbox/Ps2
                    7th Gen: Ps3, Xbox360, Wii

                    Is it a simplistic definition? OK sure. But that's how it is defined.
                    In every one of those evolutions there were elements beyond simple increase in CPU/GPU - and even in the CPU/GPU space, to further that point, its not just increasing, but JUMPS in technology that make those CPU/GPU increases stand out.

                    B&W lines/boxes to Color Sprites
                    2d sprites to 3d polygon rendering
                    Polygons to Textured 3d
                    etc

                    The biggest jump in the latest gen is the jump to HD for gaming. There isn't anything revolutionary in this graphics/cpu generation - simply evolutionary. With previous platforms, there was a huge jump or change in how graphics were displayed or viewed. This time? same just better. That's the difference.
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                    Am I evil? yes, I am
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                    Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

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                    • #11
                      Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                      Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                      In every one of those evolutions there were elements beyond simple increase in CPU/GPU - and even in the CPU/GPU space, to further that point, its not just increasing, but JUMPS in technology that make those CPU/GPU increases stand out.

                      B&W lines/boxes to Color Sprites
                      2d sprites to 3d polygon rendering
                      Polygons to Textured 3d
                      etc
                      The jumps in hardware allowed for those graphical improvements, not the other way around.

                      The biggest jump in the latest gen is the jump to HD for gaming. There isn't anything revolutionary in this graphics/cpu generation - simply evolutionary. With previous platforms, there was a huge jump or change in how graphics were displayed or viewed. This time? same just better. That's the difference.
                      OK now you've completely contradicted yourself. The Wii supports, via component video cable, resolutions of 480p (as opposed to 480i, standard television). The Wii does not support High Def. The Wii is an evolution of the gamecube, a 6th generation model (both in computing power AND in control mechanism), and is therefore 7th generation.

                      Again, the jump in hardware from the current generation provides for "next-gen". HD only equals 7th generation on two of the three systems.

                      There was nothing "revolutionary" about the SNES from the NES either, yet they are still different generations. The SNES simulated 3d environments, and this evolved into the N64 (which displayed the same thing with better graphics because of the hardware). They all had a game pad that you used to control things (as well as a lot of other peripherals... hell even the Atari 2600 had different peripherals).

                      So unless you want to want to redefine gaming generations, then I'm not buying the "revolutionary" argument.
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                      • #12
                        Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                        Originally posted by Chernabog View Post
                        The jumps in hardware allowed for those graphical improvements, not the other way around.
                        Yes, but it is those deliverables that made the hardware significant.

                        No one is running around swearing how the Ti234234544 chip differentiated the systems. The thing that sticks out to people is 8bit, 16bit, and 32bit, all of which were simply marketing differentiations. The address space each machine could address means little to the actual end result (more to what memory it could access) but that's how people label the different gens.

                        Originally posted by Chernabog View Post
                        OK now you've completely contradicted yourself. The Wii supports, via component video cable, resolutions of 480p (as opposed to 480i, standard television). The Wii does not support High Def.
                        No I'm not - Who here is saying the CPU/GPU of the Wii is what makes it next gen? That's the argument of why the PS3/360 are so powerful and should be next gen, etc. And while they are better, they are not a significant jump to delineate a whole new era of gaming.

                        The PS2 to PS3 is not the Bronze to the Iron Age.

                        The 'generations' as used (as 6th or 7th gen as you label) are purely just historical differentiations based on sequence and release date. The author of the article in the OP is talking more impact. Call it artist freedom or whatever.

                        But PS2->PS3 has not been a generation leap forward in how games are played - it even hasn't been impactful into how games are marketed or designed.

                        Originally posted by Chernabog View Post
                        There was nothing "revolutionary" about the SNES from the NES either, yet they are still different generations.
                        The SNES (and Genesis) moved gaming from the 4d pad and 2 buttons of the typical 80s coin-op games before it into much more advanced controllers as just one example. Those changes have echoed in EVERY system since. SNES introduced real-time rendering of worlds vs scrollers. It brought Stereo sound and significantly more advanced audio. Again, things that changed the dynamics of how games were designed and enjoyed. Plus more. The advancements the platform brought significantly changed the way games were developed and what they offered.

                        These are hallmarks of a generation jump - when a platform immediately antiquates everything that was out before it. The numbers speak for themselves today. The current platforms have NOT antiquated the previous inventory and in fact people continue to buy systems with significantly inferior specs then the current platforms. The systems do not offer those 'must have' things that instantly drive all development and purchasing to that platform.

                        Even though the Wii has similar Graphics capabilities to the GC - NO one buys a GC (at virtually any price) - why? because the new products offer 'must have' functionalities over the previous models and have innovated games to incorporate it to the point no one wants the previous one. Even though graphically its very similar.

                        That is why Graphics and CPU alone are not the metrics that illustrate shifts in the gaming world.

                        So yes, when you go by release dates and lumping systems together they are a generation (in the literal sense) but what the article is talking about is what is a generation jump in how things are done. Please show me how the PS2->PS3 has made an impact on how games are developed and what or how people play. (or the xbox to the 360).
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                        Am I evil? yes, I am
                        Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                        Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                        Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

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                        • #13
                          Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                          ^^ So you want to redefine what makes a video game console generation according to your rules/definition (it has to antiquate everything before it) versus the accepted definition. Oh, and the NES to the SNES game pad was REVOLUTIONARY? Give me a break.

                          So fine, if you make up a new definition for next gen, and the Wii is the only thing that fits your made-up definition, then yes, according to you, the Wii is the only thing that is next gen.

                          Now I'm going to define "Chernabog" as "the coolest guy in the universe". Now because I am the coolest guy in the universe, you aren't as cool as me. I love this game!
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                          • #14
                            Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                            who's the 'authority' to define these generations? The people writing wikipedia pages?

                            Please
                            Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                            Am I evil? yes, I am
                            Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                            Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                            Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

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                            • #15
                              Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                              Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                              who's the 'authority' to define these generations? The people writing wikipedia pages?

                              Please
                              Oh please yourself. The only thing that is "muddy" about what makes a video game generation is the numbering itself (i.e. video games have gone somewhere between 7 and 9 generations). NES->SNES->N64->Gamecube->Wii seems to be generally accepted where -> = next gen.

                              But I'm done arguing since you've obviously appointed yourself as the authority.
                              I am grateful... grapefruit! ~ Bjork (upon winning Best International Female Artist at the BRIT Awards)
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                              • #16
                                Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                                Originally posted by Chernabog View Post
                                But I'm done arguing since you've obviously appointed yourself as the authority.
                                Me? Hello.. let's recap

                                Post 8 Me -> "IMO, that is a simplistic approach."

                                Post 9 You -> "But that's how it is defined"

                                Post 11 You -> 'So unless you want to want to redefine gaming generations...'

                                Post 13 - "So you want to redefine what makes a video game console generation according to your rules/definition (it has to antiquate everything before it) versus the accepted definition"

                                The only one here claiming to be the authority and having the ONLY definition of gaming generations is YOU.

                                I started the whole conversation with 'IMO' - and now you are getting all pompous about it.

                                Keep your wikipedia definition and hold it dear. It doesn't matter... gaming has not shifted with the PS3/360 release.. just as PC gaming has not shifted with the DX10 cards or latest 8800/etc. If release tables is what makes someone feel good about a change.. woohoo to them.
                                Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                                Am I evil? yes, I am
                                Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

                                Originally posted by sleepyjeff
                                Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

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                                • #17
                                  Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                                  MOD NOTE:

                                  Okay everybody, it's a Video Game. Let's calm down before this ends up in the debate lounge.

                                  Thanks.

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                                  • #18
                                    Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                                    Originally posted by sir clinksalot View Post
                                    MOD NOTE:

                                    Okay everybody, it's a Video Game. Let's calm down before this ends up in the debate lounge.

                                    Thanks.
                                    It's okay, I had a silly thought that someone could be taken off of ignore to have conversations about topics other than Disneyland, but I was obviously wrong. *sigh* I'm not even reading what was posted above.
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                                    • #19
                                      Re: Wii the only real "next-gen" console

                                      Originally posted by thejoshualee View Post
                                      I don't agree with this at all.

                                      -the difference between PS2/xbox and PS3/360 is huge. Yes, not all the games take advantage of it, but some really do. More than just advances to graphics is detail, physics, story-telling ability, multi-media, New online environments, etc, etc, etc..
                                      I agree completely. The technology is new, and therefore underutilized, but the potential is monumental. Blu-Ray allows for a much richer overall experience. I don't equate fun as the ultimate factor in a game. When I watch a movie, seldom do I think "am I having fun?" either. It's just not a requirement. For some genres yes, but not for all.

                                      -A new demographic does not a "next-gen" make. At it's core the Wii is a PS2 with a motion controller. The fact that their is innovative games on it is a boon, but really, nothing is new. Motion control isn't new (and it's on the PS3 anyway). Yes, they are able to tap into the "casual-gamer" but how does that make it the only next-gen?
                                      I agree again. Make anything mediocre or broad enough, and you'll appeal to more people.

                                      Originally posted by Chernabog View Post
                                      I was sort of disturbed to read, however, that the plethora of non-traditional Wii gamers who don't like epic games (like Twilight Princess, according to Miyamoto, in an Entertainment Weekly interview) has resulted in lowered sales of those titles. Thus this means we'll see fewer of those types of games.
                                      I've been saying that since BEFORE the Wii launched. Whenever I did, it was dismissed as bad rhetoric. Sure enough, sales charts show this to be true. The Wii doesn't grow the market in traditional terms. Most Wii gamers don't latch on to traditional genres. They like playing Wii stuff and that's it.

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